DEDC Committee Meeting

THE SPECIAL JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE DECLARATION OF EMERGENCY

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

OTTAWA, Thursday, September 22, 2022
(12)

[English]

Pursuant to the order of the Senate of Thursday, September 22, 2022 and the order of the House of Commons of Thursday, June 23, 2022, the Special Joint Committee on the Declaration of Emergency met this day in room 025-B, West Block, and with videoconference, at 6:35 p.m. ET, the joint chair, Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin, presiding.

Representing the Senate: The Honourable Senators Boniface, Carignan, P.C., Cordy and White (4).

Representing the House of Commons: Rachel Bendayan, Larry Brock, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Matthew Green, Glen Motz, Yasir Naqvi and Arif Virani (7).

Participating in the meeting: Max Hollins, Procedural Clerk, Senate of Canada; Stephanie Feldman and Colin Sawatzky, analysts, Library of Parliament.

Pursuant to the order of reference adopted by the Senate on Thursday, March 3, 2022 and the House of Commons on Wednesday, March 2, 2022, the committee continued its review of the exercise of powers and the performance of duties and functions pursuant to the declaration of emergency that was in effect from Monday, February 14, 2022, to Wednesday, February 23, 2022.

It was agreed that the Committee deem the evidence, including testimony and documents, received by, and published on the websites of, standing committees of the House of Commons and the Public Order Emergency Commission, in relation to the February 2022 public order emergency and matters consequential to it, to have been received by this Committee and may be used in its reports, provided that it shall not limit the questions which may be asked of witnesses appearing before the Committee or documents which may be requested or ordered to be produced by the Committee.

Mr. Motz moved:

That the Committee direct the Joint Clerks to invite each individual or organization listed on the analysts’ work plan, dated May 11, 2022, to submit a brief to the Committee for its consideration, with briefs encouraged to be provided to the Joint Clerks within one month of the adoption of this motion, provided that the Joint Clerks shall arrange for translation of the briefs received and circulate them to Committee members and publish them on the Committee’s website upon completion of the translation.

After debate, it was agreed that debate on the motion be adjourned.

Mr. Motz moved:

That the Committee send to each individual or organization listed on the analysts’ work plan, dated May 11, 2022, written questions submitted by the members of the Committee for response, provided that (a) members shall provide their questions to the Joint Clerks within three weeks of the adoption of this motion; (b) members may designate up to five questions per individual or organization as “priority questions”; (c) individuals or organizations shall be directed to respond (i) to priority questions within three weeks of the Joint Clerks sending them, and (ii) to all other questions within six weeks of the Joint Clerks sending them, provided that a failure to respond to questions shall be approached by the Committee as if a witness declined to respond to an oral question asked at a Committee meeting; and (d) the Joint Clerks shall arrange for translation of the responses received and circulate them to Committee members and publish them on the Committee’s website upon completion of the translation.

After debate, at 7:12 p.m., the committee suspended.

At 7:19 p.m., the committee resumed.

It was agreed that the motion be amended as follows:

That the Committee send to each individual organization who appears as a witness written questions submitted by the members of the committee for response provide that (a) members shall provide their questions to the Joint Clerks within seven days of the date of their apperance (b) members may designate up to two questions per representative group, (c) individuals or organizations shall be directed to respond within 21 days of the joint clerks sending them, (d) the joint clerks shall arrange for translation of the responses received, and circulate them to committee members and publish them on the website upon completion of the translation.

The question being put on the motion as amended, it was adopted.

Mr. Motz moved:

That the Committee, noting the frustrations of its members with certain witnesses evading questions or declining to answer questions on grounds not conceded by this Committee or the law of parliamentary privilege, invite the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel of the Senate, the Deputy Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel of the House of Commons, and representatives of both Houses’ procedural services to brief the Committee as soon as possible concerning the rights of committees to procure responses to oral questioning and the procedures for compelling those responses.

After debate, It was agreed that the motion be amended by replacing the words “to brief” with the words “to provide a written brief to”.

The question being put on the motion as amended, it was adopted.Mr. Motz moved:

That the Committee publish on its website the documents which were produced in response to its order of May 31, 2022, and circulated to Committee members in July 2022.

It was agreed that the motion be amended by removing all words after the words “May 31, 2022”.

The question being put on the motion as amended, it was adopted.Mr. Motz moved:

That the Committee finds the responses of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Department of Justice to its May 31, 2022, order to be unacceptable and is of the opinion that a potential contempt has occurred as a result and, therefore, (a) directs the Joint Clerks and analysts to prepare a succinct interim report setting out the material facts of the situation; and (b) instructs the Joint Chairs to present this report to both Houses as soon as it has been prepared.

After debate, Mr. Motz moved that debate on the motion be adjourned.

The question being put on the motion to adjourn debate, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators Boniface, Carignan P.C., Cordy and White and Mr. Brock, Mr. Fortin, Mr. Green and Mr. Motz– [8]

NAYS

Ms. Bendayan, Mr. Naqvi and Mr. Virani – [3]

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

Mr. Motz moved:

That the Committee, noting the use of redactions in the documents provided by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, the Canada Border Services Agency and the Department of Transport in response to the Committee’s May 31, 2022, order, though the order was silent on authorized redactions, directs the Joint Clerks to request the deputy heads of those institutions to provide this Committee, within two weeks and in both official languages, with a written explanation of the grounds for each redaction made to the documents and, where possible, a summary of the information redacted.

After debate, the Honourable Senator Cordy moved that debate on the motion be adjourned.

The question being put on the motion to adjourn debate, it was adopted on the following vote:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators Boniface, Carignan P.C., Cordy and White and Mr. Brock, Mr. Fortin, Mr. Green and Mr. Motz– [8]

NAYS

Ms. Bendayan, Mr. Naqvi and Mr. Virani – [3]

ABSTENTIONS

NIL

Mr. Motz moved:

That the Committee, noting the undertaking of the Privy Council Office to provide to this Committee certain documents which will be provided to the Public Order Emergency Commission which are also responsive to the Committee’s May 31, 2022, order, despite not doing so directly in response to the Committee’s order, while also observing that relevant Cabinet minutes, among other documents, were disclosed by the government in Federal Court proceedings and have been subject to media reporting but which have not been provided to this Committee, invites the Clerk of the Privy Council to appear before the Committee to discuss these matters, among other things.

After debate, at 8:07 p.m., the committee suspended.

At 8:09 p.m., the committee resumed.

Resuming debate on the motion of Mr. Motz.

After debate, it was agreed that debate on the motion be adjourned.

Ms. Bendayan moved:

That the committee invite Peter Sloly, Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson, and representatives from the Ottawa Police Service to appear for one hour each; that the committee invite the Parliamentary Protective Service, the Sergeant at Arms for the House of Commons, and representatives from the Corporate Security Directorate from the Senate to appear on one panel for a period of two hours; and that these meetings take place as soon as possible subject to witnesses' availabilities. 

After debate, it was agreed that the motion be amended as follows:

That the committee invite Peter Sloly, Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson, the interim chief and acting deputy chief of the Ottawa Police Service and the Commissioner of the OPP to appear for two hours each; that the committee invite the Parliamentary Protective Service, the Sergeant at Arms for the House of Commons, and representatives from the Corporate Security Directorate from the Senate to appear on one panel for a period of two hours; and that these meetings take place as soon as possible subject to witnesses' availabilities. 

The question being put on the motion as amended, it was adopted.At 8:21 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the chair.

ATTEST:

Miriam Burke

Mark Palmer

Joint Clerks of the Committee