LIBI Committee Meeting

38th PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION

Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament

EVIDENCE

CONTENTS

Tuesday, November 22, 2005

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski (Oak Ridges—Markham, Lib.))

Mr. William Young (As an Individual)

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Mr. Maurice Vellacott (Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, CPC)

Mr. William Young

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Mr. William Young

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Mr. William Young

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Mr. William Young

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard (Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, BQ)

Mr. William Young

Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard

Mr. William Young

Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard

Mr. William Young

Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard

Mr. William Young

Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard

Mr. William Young

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Mr. Bill Siksay (Burnaby—Douglas, NDP)

Mr. William Young

Mr. Bill Siksay

Mr. William Young

Mr. Bill Siksay

Mr. William Young

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Senator Jane Cordy

Mr. William Young

Senator Jane Cordy

Mr. William Young

Senator Jane Cordy

Mr. William Young

Senator Jane Cordy

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Hon. Mark Eyking (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.)

Hon. Gerry Byrne (Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, Lib.)

Mr. William Young

Hon. Gerry Byrne

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Mr. Peter Goldring (Edmonton East, CPC)

Mr. William Young

Mr. Peter Goldring

Mr. William Young

Mr. Peter Goldring

Mr. William Young

Mr. Peter Goldring

Mr. William Young

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Senator Elizabeth Hubley

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Mr. Lloyd St. Amand (Brant, Lib.)

Mr. William Young

Mr. Lloyd St. Amand

Mr. William Young

Mr. Lloyd St. Amand

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

Mr. William Young

The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski)

CANADA

EVIDENCE

Tuesday, November 22, 2005

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

*   *   *

¼  (1805)  

[English]

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski (Oak Ridges—Markham, Lib.)): I call this meeting to order.

    It's a pleasure to be the chair. It's my first meeting chairing this committee. It's also Mr. Young's first time appearing before this committee.

    We would like to have an opening statement from Mr. Young, and then we'll go into questions.

    I believe you've all received the agenda and also Mr. Young's curriculum vitae.

    Mr. Young.

    Mr. William Young (As an Individual): Thank you.

    First of all, I'd like to thank the committee for the opportunity to appear before you.

    As I was saying to some of the members, I'm used to sitting up there where Tim Williams is. That has been my normal position in committees. So it's a little strange sitting down here, but thank you very much for hearing from me.

    I must say, I'm very honoured to have my name go forward for the position of the Parliamentary Librarian, because for a political historian like I am, it's a job that brings both my passions and interests but also my training and experience. As I mentioned, it's almost twenty years that I have worked with parliamentarians from all parties at the parliamentary research branch.

[Translation]

    For nearly 150 years, the Library of Parliament has been a shining light on our country's political and historical landscape. It is also an architectural gem, a historical landmark and a unique institution that serves Parliament as well as the general public. While the Library's official mission has not changed since the institution's creation, the work carried out at the Library has evolved dramatically in response to the environment and to circumstances.

[English]

    While the library remains a repository of books and other printed information, it has moved into the technological era in its collections and reference services. Over 30 years ago it added a research and analysis function. During the past decade, it has been the public face of Parliament by providing information to citizens about how our Parliament works.

    In all these areas, I think there are ongoing activities to be nurtured, initiatives to be undertaken, and boundaries to be pushed.

[Translation]

    The main role of the Library and indeed its main challenge is and will always be to serve parliamentarians, that is senators and MPs alike. The Library must evaluate the work it does on an ongoing basis and gear its activities to the evolving needs and duties of parliamentarians.

[English]

    Parliamentarians' needs are indeed constantly changing as technologies evolve, new political and public policy issues arise, and new personalities and new priorities appear on the scene.

    As an institution with the mandate to provide high-quality service to parliamentarians from all parties in both houses, its success in meeting these ongoing challenges depends on imagination, creative leadership, and an ability to deal successfully with transformative change.

[Translation]

    At the same time, the Library must continue to play its role as an impartial, reliable source of information for all parliamentarians. In order to do so, the Library must, in my estimation, continue to be a visionary institution. Working with staff and parliamentarians demands leadership skills. This vision and this leadership are essential to ensuring that the Library of Parliament continues to be an institution that fulfills the needs of lawmakers and meets the new expectations of Parliament, our lawmakers and Canadians.

[English]

    In my view, the library, as an institution, should re-evaluate how it will move forward. It must balance its role as a traditional repository of information and its place as the primary source of the highest-quality research and analysis for parliamentarians and their committees.

    It must reinvigorate its traditional functions as a library and meet the challenge of explaining Parliament to Canadians. It must maintain its place as one of the critical sources of Parliament's institutional memory of what works and why.

    It must strive to achieve the highest standard for all its activities--its traditional functions and its technical base as a library--while demonstrating its flexibility and ability to respond quickly to the evolving needs of Parliament and parliamentarians for analysis and research.

    It must capture the potential offered by new technologies and new ways of doing things that are relevant to both the traditional and the newly emerging roles of the Library of Parliament, and it must mesh its role and responsibilities with those of the Senate and the House of Commons, given that it has a unique position and serves both houses.

[Translation]

    Most of these challenges extend beyond the stated qualifications for the position of Parliamentary Librarian. They require absolute understanding of and deep respect for parliamentary democracy, a creative, open approach, excellent analytical skills as well as policy and management experience.

[English]

    I also believe the position requires a vision for the future of the library and its role in stimulating and supporting the evolution of Parliament, the fundamental institution of our democracy.

    Should you decide to confirm my nomination to the position of Parliamentary Librarian, I look forward to working with each of you individually as parliamentarians, and also with you as a committee under the exceptional mandate of reporting to both houses.

    Merci. Thank you very much.

¼  (1810)  

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Thank you very much, Mr. Young.

    Let us first agree to have five-minute rounds instead of rounds of seven minutes, in light of our one-hour time allotment. Everyone will ask five-minute questions. Would that be agreeable to everyone?

    Mr. Vellacott.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott (Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, CPC): I think I've had the privilege, actually, to work at some point.... You look familiar, Mr. Young, and I suppose that on committees, we've had the opportunity to work on the other side, as you say.

    Looking over your very fine résumé, I'm very impressed with what I see here in respect to excellence as political historian, researcher, and so on, but I may as well cut right to my question.

    This is an administrative role. It is also a senior librarian. You're possibly prepared for a question like this, but I need to ask the question in terms of the need to get the best person for the job. I don't notice a lot of administrative oversight of a library anywhere, for that matter--if I were very facetious, I would say even at an elementary school level--so I need to ask you that question. I think you'll have some kind of response to that. I don't see administrative. I see researcher, and I have to say I'm very impressed with the nature of your curriculum vitae in respect of that, but I don't see administrative.

    Mr. William Young: Thanks, Mr. Vellacott. You recognize me because I was the research director for the HRDC standing committee as well as the subcommittee on the status of persons with disabilities, which you were on.

    In terms of administrative experience, I was the director of the political and social affairs division at the parliamentary research branch for about three years. I administered a budget that was in the neighbourhood of $2 million to $3 million.

    I recognize your question. I think, though, that one of the things the librarian has, in fact, is access to the administrative experience you say the librarian needs. I agree with that, but at the same time I think you have to remember that the Library of Parliament isn't a library in the traditional sense of the word. It's an institution that serves as an information resource to Parliament. The actual functions of the librarian comprise a huge amount more than the kind of traditional administrative experience you might be thinking of.

    For example, for the parliamentary public programs there's a very competent woman who looks after those issues. She runs those programs, organizes the guide tours, etc. The research branch itself is very adequately supported. There are very adequate heads of both human resources and financial administration.

    As a library, I think the organization does very well in terms of its library administration. But I think what's required here at this point—from my perspective, anyway—is someone who can provide a vision and leadership for the library to lead it forward in the future and who can bring all those resources together to move things forward in a positive and constructive way.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: Do you see it as more—and I think this would be a pretty faint word—more than a figurehead, but certainly vision-setting in those things? Would you say the administrative is not really a very key component of the job description, then?

    Mr. William Young: I think obviously administration and guiding administration are a key component of the position. But guiding administration and getting enmeshed in the details of administration are two different things.

    If you look, for example, at the role of a deputy minister in a department, you don't find a deputy minister getting into the nitty-gritty details of administration. The deputy minister sets the overall policy direction; makes sure the clientele—in that case the minister—is appropriately served; and makes sure the policy documents and material that are to be developed are developed in an appropriate and timely way.

    I don't know exactly what you mean by administration, but I think getting down into that level of administrative detail is not necessarily something that serves either the institution or those who are doing those jobs hugely well.

¼  (1815)  

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: Let me just frame it another way. I know a lot of wonderful, fine researchers, over a course of a bit of an academic career myself. But many of them would not strike me as ones to work in administration. That's I guess what I mean, if it helps a bit. I think, as you would confess, that not every very excellent researcher would be capable of being our librarian, even granting the difference in what's required here. That's more what I'm going with: every researcher is not necessarily capable of this job, as fine as they might be.

    Mr. William Young: Well, I've never sold myself solely as a researcher. I think that's something you've seen on my CV.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: You're very good.

    Mr. William Young: I've taught university, I've worked in the Privy Council Office, I've worked in various government departments over the course of my career. I think what I bring to the job is a sense of how government works per se, how the political system works per se, and what the library can do to maximize its potential within those systems and move the institution itself forward so that it's not perhaps as internal-looking as it has been in the past.

[Translation]

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Thank you.

    Ms. Poirier-Rivard.

    Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard (Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, BQ): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

    You have a very impressive resume, Mr. Young. You served as assistant team leader on a social security reform initiative.

    Was this a political appointment, or a public service position?

    Mr. William Young: I am on assignment with the department, but I remain a Library of Parliament employee. As part of my assignment, I serve as the contact point between the minister and his office and the department. My current superior is the Assistant Deputy Minister, Departmental Services, not the Minister.

    Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard: This brings me to the following question. What qualifications do you have that make you a suitable candidate for the position of Librarian? Could you be specific?

    Mr. William Young: I think I have a vast amount of experience in this area. I was a university professor. I taught at York, McGill and Simon Fraser universities. As I said to Mr. Velacott, I have done research. I've written and edited books. I am actively involved in the academic community.

    I've worked for several departments, including the Privy Council Office, Foreign Affairs and Human Resources and Skills Development Canada. I also worked for the Parliamentary Research Branch for 17 years. These positions have helped me to develop an extensive network of contacts within government, departments and all political parties.

    While in the employ of the Library of Parliament, I showed my innovative spirit by producing Parliament's first video report. I dared to go where no one had gone before. I breathed new life into a series of parliamentary workshops. I supervised the production of several reports on parliamentary reform and other subjects. Along with Ms. Dalphond-Guiral, I arranged for the first virtual Internet consultations of the Subcommittee on Persons with Disabilities. I consider these to be fairly significant achievements.

¼  (1820)  

    Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard: What future vision do you have for the Library of Parliament? Which issues and areas would you like to focus on more specifically during your tenure?

    Mr. William Young: The first thing that will need to be done is to breathe new life into the Library. From a human resources standpoint, the Library needs to recruit young professionals, since 50 per cent of our researchers are slated to retire in the near future. We need to attract new middle level professional and to develop mechanisms for communicating and exchanging ideas with departmental senior officials. If truth be told, the Library is somewhat inward looking. Some of the services shared with the House of Commons and Senate need to be evaluated.

    New life must be injected into the Library's budgetary process. This committee should play a more active role, much like that of a management committee. We also need to focus on our clientele and to identify how best to meet the needs of parliamentarians. The Library's performance should be rated against these criteria.

    Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard: In your opinion, will you have more work and more research to do if a minority government is elected?

    Mr. William Young: That's a difficult question, the answer to which is probably no. However, as the Library's researchers will tell you, we work under ever-changing conditions. I can't say for certain what will happen. We'll have to wait and see. I've been working in the department for nearly two years now, and...

    Ms. Denise Poirier-Rivard: Thank you.

    Mr. William Young: You're welcome, Madam.

[English]

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Thank you.

    Mr. Siksay.

    Mr. Bill Siksay (Burnaby—Douglas, NDP): Thank you, Mr. Chair.

    Mr. Young, it's great to have you here this afternoon. As a new member of Parliament, I haven't bumped into you before, but I did some asking about, and your reviews were good from among my colleagues. They were very enthusiastic about your nomination for this position as well. It's great to have you sitting at this end of the table today to go through this part of the exercise.

    I want to ask you to comment on two things, and they're related to the criteria for the position of Parliamentary Librarian. I would like you to comment on what your personal leadership style is like and maybe reflect a bit on how you act as a leader in the context of the library and how you see that going. The other one is around how you exercise impartiality in the work and how that relates to the work of the library. I know it's important in this political atmosphere for that one to be exercised carefully. I'd like to hear your reflections on those two issues.

    Mr. William Young: On my leadership style, I think it's very important to function by consensus, but consensus doesn't always mean taking or going to the lowest common denominator. I think my leadership style would mean involving the people who are most concerned in the decisions that affect them. That's always been my view. I think when I was director at the political and social affairs division, I was pretty active in making sure that the people who worked for me were involved in the decisions and, where they were going out, felt supported. I think that's what I was trying to say to Madam Poirier-Rivard, as well.

    Being a director or being involved at the research branch meant that I used to spend my days talking to my staff and my nights until eight or ten o'clock doing my paperwork. There were very, very long days, but I felt that because the major resource of the library is in effect the people who work there, those people have to feel that they are valued and supported and that their views on what is the appropriate thing to do are not just heard but listened to.

    The second question was....

¼  (1825)  

    Mr. Bill Siksay: Around the issue of impartiality.

    Mr. William Young: I think all members of the committee have seen the way the library functions in terms of its neutrality and impartiality. I think it has been very well established as part of the institutional culture. It's part of the way I think about the library. It's just there. It's not something that one even considers, because as members of Parliament you're entitled to the best advice on the questions that you ask. I think that's been the tradition the library has given, regardless of the personal views of the individual who's preparing that advice. I think that certainly from my perspective it's something I've been doing and lived with for twenty years, and I can't see myself not continuing in that way.

    Mr. Bill Siksay: You mentioned that you saw maybe a different role for this committee in its relationship with the library. I wonder if you could say a bit more about that.

    Mr. William Young: If you look at the history of this committee, for most of the time I was at the library it really wasn't hugely active. It would meet once or twice a year to constitute itself. It was usually the last committee constituted in the whole parliamentary firmament in both houses.

    I think it started to change its role in the last Parliament, when Carolyn Bennett and Senator Morin were co-chairs and Deborah Grey, who I think I just saw here, was the vice-chair. That's when the committee started to look actively at what the parliamentary committee itself could do.

    I know the library prepared a strategic plan around that time. Certainly the co-chairs were involved in the preparation of that strategic plan, setting out what they felt their vision was. If the library is going to perform its functions....

    Back when I was the director, we put together a plan for what the library could be and how it could expand in terms of its services to members and the different roles--how it could support them, for example, in managing email; in their constituency work, for example, by putting out templates for town halls; and in their work in committees.

    Right now I think there's approximately one FTE, as they call them--one analyst--per committee. That's a pretty difficult position for these guys to be in, because ultimately you're not getting one full-time analyst; what you're getting is a bit of this one, a bit of that one, and a bit of somebody else.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Thank you.

    Senator Cordy is next.

    Senator Jane Cordy: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

    Thank you very much, Mr. Young, for coming to tell us about what you've done and what you're planning on doing. Certainly I agree with others who have said you have a very impressive CV. When I told people that I was sparing on this committee today, they said you were an excellent nominee.

    Going back to Mr. Vellacott's questioning, I noticed when I was looking through your résumé that in terms of management, you said you had managed a large group of senior public-policy research professionals. You also spoke about managing researchers. Could you give us a little more detail as to exactly what you did and what your role was in managing this group of professionals?

¼  (1830)  

    Mr. William Young: I had about 30 professionals. Mainly they were people with a master's degree, minimum, or a PhD. They performed the functions of researchers on the committees. They also performed the functions of answering requests from parliamentarians, providing information--

    Senator Jane Cordy: I'm looking more for what your role was in terms of managing.

    Mr. William Young: In my role I would assign the work. I would make sure the work was completed on time. I would do a certain set of quality control. Because these are professionals, as I said earlier, I would try to make sure they had the tools they required to do their jobs in the best way possible. I would make sure the budget and support staff were in place, that the...what else...?

    Senator Jane Cordy: That sounds like quite a bit.

    I was a full-time member of this committee when Carolyn Bennett was the chair and Senator Poy was the vice-chair. One of the things that seemed to be an issue at that time with us was that the Library of Parliament offered a phenomenal range of services to parliamentarians, but not all parliamentarians were aware of those services. As well, there were some who may have been aware of the services, in addition to those who weren't aware of them, but they were not using the services of the library. How would you see your role if you were to be the successful candidate? How would you go about changing that, to better inform parliamentarians from both houses and get greater usage?

    Mr. William Young: I think marketing is probably what you're talking about to some extent, and the library hasn't been hugely active in terms of marketing its services. It does so at the beginning of each Parliament, but as Parliament progresses and as the session progresses, the library isn't hugely active. In the near future, if it's appropriately managed, the reopening of the library itself is going to be a huge opportunity to showcase the library in a whole range of areas. One of them would obviously be services for members.

    The Senate, if I recall, is probably one of the larger users of library services in terms of the proportion of senators who use this service. In part, I suspect that's because you folks are here for a longer period of time and have the time to become more knowledgeable about what's around and what you can use.

    In terms of the House, I suppose there are different ways. Part of what the library was trying to do when Carolyn Bennett was here was to showcase itself to some extent as the university on the Hill, through these seminar series. It was to show that by bringing in and using partnerships with some of the outside institutions that have a broad range of contacts and knowledge, that's another way of showcasing or making members aware that the library has the capacity to provide certain services as well.

    Senator Jane Cordy: Thank you.

    Thank you, Chair.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Thank you.

    Mr. Eyking.

    Hon. Mark Eyking (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): I'm going to pass it over to Gerry.

    Hon. Gerry Byrne (Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, Lib.): Mr. Young, I want to follow up on a question that Mr. Vellacott put. I think we're getting answers to the initial question that was asked by Mr. Vellacott in terms of your ability to act as CEO, to make the transition effectively from library principal, your function as a researcher, as an academic, and as a non-partisan provider of good research to parliamentarians.

    As the chief librarian, basically your job will be to serve as CEO of the Library of Parliament. You've talked a little bit about your vision of instilling a culture within the library of revitalizing its functions and continuing to update and modernize the techniques, strategies, and tactics of the library to better serve parliamentarians and all of its stakeholder groups.

    I guess what Mr. Vellacott was saying was that with the CEO, the buck stops there. We want to make sure you're able to properly administer that buck, and that your ability to budget, to administer, to provide oversight to all of those functions, and then to be able to provide that accountability to Parliament at the end of the day, as the CEO, is fulfilled. I think that's really what Mr. Vellacott was getting at.

    Would you be able to further define your managerial skills, your ability to manage budgets, and your ability to absorb that information that comes from your subordinates, whether they be financial officers or other things, so that you can adequately provide that function?

¼  (1835)  

    Mr. William Young: Well, part of my current job at the Department of Social Development has in fact been to supervise the budgetary cycle of the department, making certain that things like the program architecture.... I don't know if you know this, but if you deal with estimates, the program architecture is the document that sets out how the department is organized. I was very active in putting the program architecture together for the new Department of Social Development when it was being put in place, because that was a brand-new organization.

    I was very active in going through what they call the ARLU, the reference levels that are established to govern the spending of the department, and in how those reference levels were established. I worked very closely with the comptroller's office and with the administrators there.

    I was also the person who had to supervise all of the estimates as they were coming through the system, to make sure that the system and the estimates were appropriately prepared and appropriately dealt with, so that they could in fact be presented in Parliament in a way that reflected what the department's mandate and responsibilities were.

    I was then responsible for making sure that the department's performance report reflected the outcome in terms of the estimates that were presented to the department.

    So in terms of that particular process, I've been quite involved for the last two years as the delegate, to some extent, and the intermediary, both between the minister and the department, and in negotiating those with the comptroller and the various program branches and the deputy minister.

    I don't know if that answers your question, but that was part of my job.

    Hon. Gerry Byrne: That very adequately answers the question.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Thank you.

    Mr. Goldring.

    Mr. Peter Goldring (Edmonton East, CPC): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

    Mr. Young, I would like to echo the sentiments of others on your very impressive CV.

    I would like to explore a little further the aspect of impartiality, and specifically in relation to some of your past work, in order to explore whether you were able to conduct it in a partisan fashion or whether you were conducting it in an impartial fashion, and how your work in the minister's office was done, for example, and your work in creating some writing for Mr. Martin as well. Is this something you're quite comfortable with? Is this a policy within the government for government workers? Are there guidelines that dictate this, or is this just an inner sense of how you can work in various aspects of the government in a completely non-partisan fashion?

¼  (1840)  

    Mr. William Young: Well, you have to remember that for the first seven years when I was at the Library of Parliament, I worked with Conservative committee chairs and Conservative ministers. I've never been a member of the Liberal Party, and I've been an employee of the library for the past 18 years and have worked in a non-partisan fashion.

    In terms of the department, all ministers' offices have a senior departmental assistant, who is the person serving as a conduit, as I have been doing. A lot of them, or all of them actually, as far as I know, come from the public service; they do not engage in partisan activities.

    In terms of my working for Mr. Martin, I was hired as a professional historian and worked as a researcher in the preparation of the Honourable Paul Martin Senior's memoirs; he was the person I actually worked for.

    As a professional historian, I've been involved in, or asked to become involved in, the preparation of many different political books. The last person who approached me to write a political book was in fact Brian Mulroney; his publisher called me and asked if I would be interested in helping him write his autobiography. I also edited a book prepared by Robert Stanfield, and a book prepared by Hugh Segal and Nathan Nurgitz.

    So I haven't been.... My involvement has been as a professional historian and as a non-partisan employee of Parliament.

    Mr. Peter Goldring: That's very interesting. I suppose there might be a book in Ed Broadbent's future too, to square the parties.

    Mr. William Young: Ed Broadbent, by the way, was one of my professors at university.

    Mr. Peter Goldring: I find that interesting.

    In your management style and management capacity at the library, is there a formalized policy that reinforces non-partiality, or is this just a kind of thing that is an unwritten code of conduct for members? Would you be looking at reinforcing that within the department from time to time?

    Mr. William Young: As I said, it's ingrained in the institution. The employees of the library cannot become or be actively involved in politics for any political party. That is, as I understand it, if not a rule.... I haven't looked at the policies of the library in that regard, to tell you the truth. People have a right to be involved in their private capacities, and I don't think their private capacities necessarily have an impact on the functions they perform for members of Parliament.

    I'm not going to be policing the private activities of the employees of the library. I don't think that's my job. My job is to ensure that the products that come out are products that you folks feel meet your needs. If they don't meet your needs, then you have every reason to get in touch with me or anyone else at the Library of Parliament to explain what your needs are and why these products haven't met your needs. But in terms of the private lives or activities of the employees, I don't think I would feel at all that I should be supervising or interfering or asking questions about this.

    Mr. Peter Goldring: I think it goes without saying that I and all others who have had interactions with the parliamentary library are more than grateful and satisfied with the good work that we have received.

    You made a comment about how you venture where brave men fear to tread in your relationship with video development and probably the early stages of video development, I think it was. What is your perspective on how you would view that, and what would you do where brave men would fear to tread in the areas of the new digital age, the cyberspace age? What might the library of today and the future be?

¼  (1845)  

    Mr. William Young: It depends. Are you talking about the library as a library, are you talking about the library as a research resource, or are you talking about the library in terms of what it can or might do for committees?

    One thing that we did and that I basically spearheaded was the first e-consultation that was conducted by any parliamentary committee. That was for the subcommittee on the status of persons with disabilities, which looked at Canada Pension Plan disability because, as you know, there were a series of—and still are—issues in and around eligibility, administration, and all sorts of things like that.

    We put in place a special website. It was an information website first, and then we devised a series of deliberative questions—not polls—that were put up. This was advertised across the country, and we got about ten times more people replying than we had thought we would ever get. They were asked to answer the questions, tell their stories, and make policy recommendations. That was integrated into a regular committee study in which the expert witnesses would appear, and the committee came out with a report that was pretty unique. It was the first study of its type that had used the Internet, that had gone a little more broadly to Canadians. That has since been copied or replicated by Senator Kirby and his committee, which has been studying mental health, and they've refined it even more.

    Those kinds of things would make Parliament much more relevant, if you want to call it that, to ordinary Canadians. That kind of outreach is something that is very important.

    The video report to Parliament about fifteen years ago was the first time anybody did that. What we did was put together a video report that was replicated in the tabled document, because you can't table anything but a written document. Again, it was distributed across the country to people who were interested in seeing things from a different perspective or to people who didn't want to read the written document.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Thank you very much.

    Senator Hubley.

    Senator Elizabeth Hubley: I don't have a question, Mr. Chair. I think most of my questions have been answered, and I've been very impressed with those answers.

    Thank you very much.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Mr. St. Amand.

    Mr. Lloyd St. Amand (Brant, Lib.): I just have one question.

    Mr. Young, based on some of your comments, it would appear that the library is soon facing and perhaps will even be challenged by some transitioning in terms of staff. You've mentioned that there are a number—

    Mr. William Young: That's my understanding.

    Mr. Lloyd St. Amand: All right. In the event, it may be that you wish to put your own stamp on the institution, and you will undoubtedly be looking for certain qualities in potential or prospective new employees. Can you share with us, if you have thoughts in this regard, what you would be looking for in new employees under your watch?

    Mr. William Young: One of the things that struck me about the whole issue of information is that the skill sets required by librarians, by researchers, are converging to some extent. I had a person with a PhD who was a better searcher of Internet databases than some of the librarians, and some of the librarians are as good at research and analysis as some of the people with degrees in political science.

    You need people who are visionary—but that's not quite the right word—who are willing to push the limits and willing to understand that when they come to the Library of Parliament, the skill sets they develop.... Right now, I think the standard is one of excellence, actually, when I compare it with my experience in various departments. I was saying to Senator Trenholme Counsell that you folks have access to some of the best analysis that I have ever bumped into. I have seen an awful lot of briefing notes come up to ministers through the public service in the departments that are nowhere near as good as the material that you people receive from the Library of Parliament.

    To answer your question, it's a matter of maintaining that excellence and understanding that the skills, as they converge, can add to that excellence. That would be the way I would answer the question.

¼  (1850)  

    Mr. Lloyd St. Amand: Thank you, sir.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Unless there are any pressing questions from those who haven't asked any yet, and this being my first meeting, I would like to finish five minutes early, if that's all right.

    I have one question to ask.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: I'll just add one question. Is the assumption here that we would go quickly, quietly as Mr. Young removes himself, or whatever? Will we have a small discussion among ourselves at that point? Would that be an appropriate thing, in a few minutes?

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Yes, if we have the time to do that.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: I think that would be helpful to us to know where we go from here.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Okay.

    Did you want to go in camera?

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: You had a question first, sir.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): The question is whether to report this to the House.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: Oh, I see.

    I thought it would be nice to have a little chat among ourselves first, in camera, if you will, and to thank William.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): Is that all right? Okay.

    Thank you very much, Mr. Young.

    Mr. William Young: Thank you.

    The Joint Chair (Mr. Lui Temelkovski): We will suspend.

    [Proceedings continue in camera]