LIBI Committee Meeting

38th PARLIAMENT, 1st SESSION

Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament

EVIDENCE

CONTENTS

Tuesday, February 22, 2005

¼

1810

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell (New-vbrunswick, Lib.))

Mr. Richard Paré (Parliamentary Librarian, Library of Parliament)

¼

1815

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Maurice Vellacott (Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, CPC)

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Richard Paré

Ms. Lynn Brodie (Director General, Information and Document Resource Service, Library of Parliament)

¼

1820

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mrs. Kate Kirkwood (Director, Law and Government Division, Library of Parliament)

¼

1825

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Ms. Dianne Brydon (Director, Parliamentary Public Programs, Library of Parliament)

¼

1830

¼

1835

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Alain Guimont (Director, Corporate Planning, Library of Parliament)

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Senator Marjory LeBreton (Ontario, CPC)

Ms. Lynn Brodie

¼

1840

Senator Marjory LeBreton

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Senator Marjory LeBreton

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Senator Marjory LeBreton

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc (Beauséjour, Lib.)

¼

1845

Mr. Richard Paré

¼

1850

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Hon. Raymond Simard (Saint Boniface, Lib.)

Ms. Dianne Brydon

Hon. Raymond Simard

Hon. Dominic LeBlanc

Hon. Raymond Simard

Ms. Dianne Brydon

Hon. Raymond Simard

Ms. Dianne Brydon

¼

1855

Hon. Raymond Simard

Ms. Dianne Brydon

Hon. Raymond Simard

Mr. Richard Paré

Mrs. Kate Kirkwood

Hon. Raymond Simard

Mrs. Kate Kirkwood

Mr. Richard Paré

Hon. Raymond Simard

Mr. Richard Paré

Hon. Raymond Simard

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Peter Goldring (Edmonton East, CPC)

½

1900

Mr. Richard Paré

Mr. Peter Goldring

Mr. Richard Paré

Mr. Peter Goldring

Mr. Richard Paré

Mr. Peter Goldring

Mrs. Kate Kirkwood

Mr. Peter Goldring

Mrs. Kate Kirkwood

Mr. Peter Goldring

Mr. Richard Paré

Mr. Peter Goldring

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell

Hon. Raymond Simard

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell

Mrs. Kate Kirkwood

Ms. Lynn Brodie

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Richard Paré

Ms. Dianne Brydon

Mrs. Kate Kirkwood

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Richard Paré

Ms. Lynn Brodie

½

1905

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Ms. Lynn Brodie

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Richard Paré

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Ms. Lynn Brodie

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Richard Paré

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Richard Paré

he Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

½

1910

Mr. Richard Paré

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Richard Paré

Ms. Lynn Brodie

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Ms. Lynn Brodie

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Mr. Richard Paré

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

½

1915

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Mr. Richard Paré

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Ms. Lynn Brodie

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

Ms. Lynn Brodie

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

Hon. Raymond Simard

Ms. Dianne Brydon

Hon. Raymond Simard

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

½

1920

Mr. Maurice Vellacott

The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell)

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CANADA

Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament

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NUMBER 002

l

1st SESSION

l

38th PARLIAMENT

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EVIDENCE

Tuesday, February 22, 2005

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

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[Translation]

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell (New-vbrunswick, Lib.)): I welcome all of you. Unfortunately, Mrs. Kadis is ill tonight.

[English]

    Welcome to everyone.

    Susan Kadis is ill.

    Senator Lapointe was here and he said he was feeling very ill. I didn't want him to call out “Is there a doctor in the House?”, so I told him to go home.

    I want to thank Mr. Paré and the others who have been sending us very good information. I have read the strategic plan. It was very helpful and very well prepared. I didn't read the financial one.

    This evening is important to give us an idea of the plan in a different form.

[Translation]

    Mr. Paré could you go ahead with your presentation?

[English]

    Mr. Richard Paré (Parliamentary Librarian, Library of Parliament): Thank you, Madam Co-Chair.

    The clerk has also indicated that the members of the committee may want to have a short presentation, for a few minutes each, on the different services of the library. I have with me members of the management team who could make a few comments on their service, after the short presentation on the strategic plan that I will do, to better understand the types of service we provide.

    I have Madam Lynn Brodie, who is the director general of the information and documentation resource service; Madam Dianne Brydon, who is the director of parliamentary public programs; Madam Kate Dunkley Kirkwood, who is the director of the law and government division in the parliamentary and information research service; and Monsieur Alain Guimont, who is the director of corporate planning.

    They will all support us in our participation in this meeting.

[Translation]

    The 2004-2005 strategic plan of the Library of Parliament I am pleased to submit to the members of the joint standing committee is the culmination of a consultation process that started in June 2003, when I invited the staff of the library to share their thoughts on the future of the library.

    In December 2003, I invited the managers of all the departments of the library to take part in brainstorming sessions where the main trusts that will guide our action in the next five years were determined.

    The document you are looking at includes two parts.

    The first one, under the title Foreword is my own thoughts on the general trends that are already shaping and will later on shape even more the future of libraries, and especially Parliamentary libraries.

    The second part is the strategic plan proper.

[English]

    Some would say that strategic plans are the basis of any sound management. I don't disagree with this perspective, but I would rather say that it sits at the top of a planning process or sequence that has three levels. The second level is composed of more sectoral planning, such as learning, communications, the succession plan, and staffing. The third level is operational planning, dealing only with the planning of the operations. This is what we do every year in the reports on plans and priorities. We have circulated to the clerks the report on plans and priorities for 2004-05. We expect to have the plans and priorities report of the library for 2005-06 ready by April this year.

    I will now briefly provide you with an overview of the key elements of the Library of Parliament's strategic plan. Slide 1 explains the contents. You will notice that there were seven strategic goals, 17 priorities, nine key issues, and three strategic outcomes.

    The next explains our vision, mission, and outcomes. Our vision is to be the first and best source of information and expertise for Canada's Parliament.

    Our mission is to support parliamentarians in their work by providing information, documentation, research, and analysis and by providing information about Canada's Parliament to the public.

    The three outcomes are that parliamentarians will be better informed on issues, Parliament's institutional memory will be preserved for future generations, and Canadians will gain a better understanding of Parliament.

    The third slide outlines the seven strategic goals of the plan, which are to meet the information and research needs of Parliament; to maintain and expand the expertise; to increase awareness of services; to maintain, target, expand, and manage information resources; to provide leadership in knowledge information management; to further develop the library as a knowledge centre for Parliament; and to optimize public access to the institution of Parliament.

    That brings us to our management strategies. We plan to develop a strategy to position the library as the knowledge centre of Parliament and to develop an integrated strategy to further use information technology.

    At this point, we have done significant work in the area of modern comptrollership, because you have to meet modern comptrollership standards in communications. We did some work, mostly in planning, communications, learning, and award recognition.

    We also plan to develop a marketing strategy. This follows the survey that we had in 2003, where parliamentarians indicated to us they didn't know enough about the service the library was providing. So we will emphasize that part.

    There's also a need to implement a recruitment/succession strategy, because we have, within the next five years, significant numbers of our senior staff who will be eligible for retirement. It doesn't mean they will retire, but they will be eligible, so we need to have a planned succession in place.

    That brings us to the next slide, which is our success criteria by business line. For information and research analysis, the success will be measured by parliamentarians and committees relying on the library as their main source of non-partisan information, research, and analysis. In the business line of information resource management, parliamentarians will rely on the library to be at the forefront of information resources and of technology as it applies to retrieving, disseminating, preserving, and archiving information and documentation.

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    As to the business line of parliamentary outreach, Canadians rely on the library to have easy access to accurate and timely information and documentation on Canada's Parliament and its representatives and to enrich their experience of visiting Parliament.

    Finally, on the business line of institutional support and leadership, the library's products, services, and operations are optimized through modern and innovative management.

    So these are the success criteria by business line.

    In closing, Madam Co-Chair, I want to pay a special tribute to the library management team.

[Translation]

    As you probably know, this is a small team. By asking the management team to cooperate in the development of this strategic plan, I put on them an extra burden. I thank them for taking up this challenge brilliantly.

[English]

    That is the short presentation of the library's strategic plan. I leave you to proceed. If you want to have more detailed information on services, we can have the directors make some comments on that, or if you want, we can go to questions right away.

[Translation]

     The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Thank you, Mr. Paré, and thank you all for your good work.

    Any questions for Mr. Paré?

[English]

    Are there questions for Mr. Paré, or discussion? How would you like to proceed, members of the committee, the members of Parliament, Minister of State, and senators.

[Translation]

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott (Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, CPC): Could we have a presentation by the directors?

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Of course.

    It has been suggested that the directors make their own presentation.

[English]

    Mr. Richard Paré: Perhaps Madam Brodie could start.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie (Director General, Information and Document Resource Service, Library of Parliament): Thank you.

    Essentially, I'll try to explain as briefly as possible what the information and document resource service does. It's quite a varied group of staff--professionals, semi-professionals, and clerical staff. They are there mainly to support parliamentarians, and to support the rest of the library staff as well.

    We have four main goals, the first of which is to select, acquire, organize, catalogue, and make available a wide variety of documents, primarily in print, but also in electronic format. We also manage the physical collections, conserve and bind books, both for ourselves and for the House and Senate.

    The documents we maintain in our collections focus on politics, history, social affairs, business, and law. We primarily collect Canadian material, almost exhaustively, and foreign materials much more selectively, depending on the subject matter. We have collections that go back, I believe, to the creation of the libraries of Upper and Lower Canada, so roughly to the 1790s. And of course, as you know, our responsibility for collecting material is part of the Parliament of Canada Act, in which we maintain collections on behalf of both the Senate and the House.

    Our second goal is to respond to the information and document requests we receive from parliamentarians and their staff by lending and copying documents, by providing convenient branches and reading rooms for consultation, and by developing our virtual or electronic collection on the Intraparl site. We focus on making sure we provide excellent access to print and television news sources, because we realize that most members of Parliament and senators are very interested in current affairs.

    Another goal is to anticipate the information and documentary needs of current and future parliamentarians, and also to make parliamentarians aware of newly acquired material, using both print publications and parliamentary websites to get across this new material, the availability of that material. Our focus is to find the means to ensure that desired information is available to you when and where you want it and on the specific topics that interest you.

    Fourthly, we also use the information at our disposal to compile current and historical information about Parliament and parliamentarians. Most of this data has been compiled in response to requests from you and your staff, but in fact it's of very great interest to the Canadian public and it's one of the parts of the Internet site that is very heavily used.

    The service is also responsible for the long-term accommodation requirements of the Library of Parliament. It includes the conservation, rehabilitation, and upgrade of the main library, in addition to participating with the Senate, House of Commons, and the Department of Public Works on the long-term vision and plan for the parliamentary precinct.

    In a nutshell, those are the responsibilities of my branch.

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     The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Thank you very much, Ms. Brodie.

    I think what we should do is perhaps continue along the list and then open the discussion after that.

    Kate Kirkwood, director of law and government division, will be next.

    Mrs. Kate Kirkwood (Director, Law and Government Division, Library of Parliament): Good evening.

    I've been asked to speak to you about the work of the parliamentary information and research service, which is our integrated information research entity.

    On a general level, what we do is provide you, parliamentarians, with non-partisan information, research, and analysis to support your work. We do this in a manner that's customized to your needs, to your questions, and to the work of your committees, associations, and delegations.

    PIRS--I'll fall into using short forms here--has highly qualified professional staff who put their skills to work for all the members of both houses. As a service, we have many years of experience in delivering the customized product that you require in a timely fashion. Collectively, we think we know we can always improve. We want to provide the research required by parliamentarians. We've developed a corporate memory. Some of our staff have been there a long time. In other cases, we hire new, highly qualified staff and rapidly teach them what it's like to work for Parliament.

[Translation]

    The Parliamentary Information and Research Service has about 75 researchers who are professionals in their own field of expertise. We have lawyers, economists, criminologists, sociologists, specialists of government issues, biologists who specialize in environmental science and other scientists.

    We make investigations to get a good understanding of what is going on in the various federal departments the Parliament should monitor. Our research is non-partisan and independent from the government, and we also answer your questions.

[English]

    Eighteen professional librarians are now part of the parliamentary information and research service. All of them have master's degrees in library science. Some now specialize in research and information gathering in law, economics, political and social affairs, or science and technology, and others work in our central inquiry section. That's the place that takes in all those questions, faxes, e-mails, phone calls, and makes sure they're all answered or assigned to someone else who will answer them. We have a staff of library technicians who gather documentation, information, and answer some of those questions. We also have information officers who provide general information about Parliament to the public. The group is backed up by professional editors, desktop publishing, and a word processing unit.

    This is a very important resource for parliamentarians, because although you're deluged with information, it's useful for you to have information from a non-partisan source that you can use as you wish. If you rely on government, they only probably give the information that is supporting their policies. Lobbyists or interest groups, well, they have their biases too. They're very knowledgeable, but when you're arriving at your own conclusions you need an independent and non-partisan source of information, but one that can customize to your needs with quick responses and the research you need and not a great deal of other information. You benefit from having this centralized service of professionals.

    We can work in interdisciplinary teams, and we often do on committees. People have subspecialties, so they can really know quite a bit about the environment. We're not absolute experts, but we are there to provide whatever service we can. Sixty percent of our work is for parliamentary committees. It's there that I think you'll meet the analysts. They're backed up by the librarians both from PIRS and from the other part of the library to get the best research and information.

    As you probably know, we provide you with briefings, help plan committee studies, have the subject matter expertise, draft committee reports, and support the study of legislation. We do this on an average of one FTE per committee. It looks like a lot more at times because we will send teams in to get the expertise you need whether you're studying agriculture, finance, or government operations.

    We produce legislative summaries, which are available on the parliamentary website. They are also available to the public. They're in-depth studies of bills—a little boring, a little neutral—but they tell you what the bill is about and you can use them in committees. We also have a publications program available to you online at any time with over 500 titles. This is in complement, of course, to all the resources of the library.

    There is a whole variety of other activities. We do similar work for parliamentary associations and delegations, and we travel as technical advisers. We've developed a group of analysts with expertise in the estimates process to provide greater knowledge when you're scrutinizing government spending. We're moving into analysis for e-consultations, and we also provide a range of seminars right from the nitty-gritty topics that your assistants need to know about handling case work and getting your information, which we do in collaboration with the librarians, to public policy seminars and specialized round tables for parliamentarians.

    We're here to serve you. We're here to answer your questions, provide the analysis and the research that you require. We try to be a very client-centred service. I think most of you have met our analysts. There are some here tonight. That's our reason for being and how we like to serve you and help you to be better informed on the issues of the day.

    Thank you.

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    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Thank you very much, Ms. Kirkwood.

    Dianne Brydon, director of parliamentary public programs.

    Ms. Dianne Brydon (Director, Parliamentary Public Programs, Library of Parliament): Thank you, Madam Co-Chair.

    The Library of Parliament's role in public outreach for Parliament is probably the least well known service that the library offers. People are always surprised to find out that the library coordinates the tours and a lot of the public activities on Parliament Hill on behalf of the Senate and the House of Commons. In fact we're almost schizophrenic; we do it going down two different roads.

    The first one we do by supporting parliamentarians in their outreach to their constituents and the public and the areas from which they've come. We assist parliamentarians by providing materials that they can use to distribute to the public—materials like these brochures you're probably very familiar with about the House of Commons and the Senate, or the Forsey book, How Canadians Govern Themselves. It's our service that produces those for you to distribute to the public.

    The other way we can assist you is to help you book group tours when you come to Parliament and assist you with booking tours into question period. We're the ones who look after the reservation system. Around about May and June that's a very popular time, and we deal with a lot of members' offices at that point when they're trying to get their groups booked in.

    A third way we assist you directly is by offering customized souvenirs or mementos for you to give your constituents, if you need gifts or souvenirs for people visiting or back in your constituency. We have in the past also assisted members in customizing some of those materials that they have given out to people as mementos of Parliament.

    The fourth way that we directly assist parliamentarians is by assisting you in making presentations about Parliament. To that end, I'm pleased and proud to show you a new kit called, “Presenting Parliament”, which is a kit that will be delivered to your office starting Monday, the week after you come back, in about two weeks. In this kit you will have a CD-ROM that will have speaking points on both the House and the Senate; a PowerPoint presentation of photographs from the website that you can use in your presentations; copies of the Senate video, which some of you may have seen; and the House of Commons video that was recently launched this week, geared towards grades 4 to 6. However, anybody who has looked at this has said it's great and can be used for a variety of different age groups, or really any kind of group at all that you'd like to show it to.

    The other thing that we will be enclosing in here is a brand-new brochure of frequently asked questions about the House of Commons that will complement the recently released one for the Senate. This, again, really simply explains facts about the House of Commons and the Senate.

    Last but not least is something that parliamentarians have been asking for, for quite a while, and that is a poster of the House of Commons and the Senate that you can use in your presentations. These will also be distributed to teachers across the country in elementary schools. For anyone else who would like to get extra copies, they'll be available for purchase very inexpensively from the souvenir boutique. On the back they have a map showing where people sit.

    These are the items we've been hearing from members of Parliament and Senators for years that they would like to have. You are going to have this delivered to your office in one handy-dandy little kit in about two weeks, which will help you with the public. I'm Santa Claus today.

    That's how we help you directly. In terms of assisting Canadians themselves, we help you to explain your role and the role of your organization to Canadians. We do that through a variety of activities. One is by providing information directly to the public, and both Lynn and I are involved in putting a lot of information about Parliament on the website. That's one of the most popular ways of accessing information such as this.

    We have a call centre with a 1-866 number to which people can call with questions and inquiries about how either the Senate or the House works. We also produce many of these publications that we distribute directly to the public on demand. Most of our print publications are also produced electronically on the website so that they are more easily accessible.

    The second way we assist the public in understanding Parliament is by education outreach. I mentioned the video that we just released last Tuesday. At the same time we released on the web a brand-new unit for secondary teachers on how to run a model Parliament. When we showed it to about 50 high school teachers at the teachers' institute last fall, it got a standing ovation. They basically said that teachers never have to plan another lesson; we've given it all to them there.

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    We were happy to hear the teachers say that. Hopefully it will be a success, and hopefully this will help them in helping young people better understand Canada's Parliament.

    One of the teachers who came to the launch last Tuesday said that if you engage youth when they're young, you'll engage them for the rest of their lives, so we're very excited about that.

    We mentioned school tours earlier. We're working on tailoring the school tours to age-specific levels. We're going to introduce an elementary tour this spring that is called “Follow that Bill”. We have “Bill”--or “Éloi”, en français--who will be a little character that students will follow through the tour as they help a bill become a law. We piloted it last November, and they love it. The teachers love it more, so that's a big success for us.

    A third area I think you're all aware of is the Teachers' Institute on Canadian Parliamentary Democracy that we run every November. Call for applications is now, so if you know of teachers in your area who want to come, the deadline for applications is April 30, and they can find the information on the website.

    The third major area that we are active in is the tours, as I mentioned. We give tours of Centre Block to the general public as well as to schools, and of the restored historic rooms in East Block in the summertime.

    We also have a fairly extensive visitors' site on the parliamentary website, for people trying to find information about coming here, and we're working on making that a whole lot more user-friendly.

    The next area, really, is the least well-known area, I guess, and that is in creating various exhibits around the building. We have an exhibit at the top of the Peace Tower. We have one down at the visitor welcome centre that explains the work of Parliament and parliamentarians. We are working on one for inside the newly renovated library, and next year we will be working on one to help interpret the memorial chamber. So these are some small interpretive components in the building that will help people understand Parliament.

    And last but not least, I did mention the souvenir boutique. We run the souvenir boutique. We have a sale coming up--I just wanted to let you know about that--and this is a way of offering mementos to people who come to visit Parliament, and also for members of Parliament and senators to provide mementos to people they would like to reward with a gift.

    That's it for the public outreach area and a bit of an overview of what we do.

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     The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): That's quite wonderful. I'm holding my breath. Thank you very much.

    Now we will have Alain Guimont.

    Mr. Alain Guimont (Director, Corporate Planning, Library of Parliament): I wasn't expecting to speak because the purpose was really to emphasize the services that are being offered and delivered by the library to parliamentarians and the public.

    But briefly, I'm with one of the four corporate services, the three others being finance and materiel management, human resources, and the library information technology office. Corporate planning is the youngest of the four and was put in place only a few years ago. We're responsible for the RPP, reports on plans and priorities; the performance report; strategic planning; and, more recently, communications. The library now is really looking much more closely into its communications with parliamentarians, and next year we'll be taking a closer look at communications with the public. That is, in a nutshell, what I'm responsible for.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Have we missed anyone, Mr. Paré? No? C'est tout?

    We're hurrying into this. With all of our colleagues here, it's quite a remarkable turnout: Senator LeBreton; Mr. Goldring, member of Parliament; Monsieur Lapierre; the Honourable Dominic LeBlanc; Monsieur Vellacott; and Monsieur Simard.

    Donc, est-ce qu'il y a des questions?

    Yes, go ahead, please, Senator LeBreton.

    Senator Marjory LeBreton (Ontario, CPC): Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you very much for that excellent presentation. Having co-chaired the health care study in the Senate, I can attest to the high quality of the work, because we had just excellent research, and it certainly contributed to the report we were able to put out.

    I have just two questions. I'm probably dating myself a little here, but back in the sixties I used to love to go into the parliamentary library, down into the bowels of the building when I was working for Mr. Diefenbaker, because he always had me researching some old piece of history, and I was interested in things dating back to the late 1700s. And of course there were all of those old drawers with the little index cards that we used to carry up to the desk to get a publication.

    What happened to that? How did you marry those old systems--or do you have two systems--to the new technology? I was sort of fond of the old system, although I know I have to catch up with this age of technology. That's my first question, and then I have another question after.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: It's actually been really interesting being at the library for the last 23 years. I arrived at the library just at the point when the catalogue drawers stopped being used. We had moved to a computerized catalogue system that we shared with the National Library of Canada and a number of other libraries across the country. Somehow or other, I suspect that most of the library staff now would find it very hard to go back to a card catalogue system.

    The computerized catalogue system is definitely much easier to use, and it can certainly be consulted anywhere on the Hill. In fact, we make our catalogue available to other libraries across the country, not directly, but through the auspices of the National Library. So there's a lot more facility for consulting our catalogue. It's a lot easier, with more ways to find material. I think it's actually become much more efficient to use that type of new system.

    We've also been adding a lot of databases and a lot of electronic information to the library's collections. We started providing access to electronic databases in the early 1970s. With the advent of the Internet, it has just mushroomed. At this point I feel we really do provide a virtual library on the Intranet. There is the media monitoring service, ParlMedia. There's access to a lot of databases in the links and CD-ROMs, to both the full text of a lot of documents and indexes that tell you where you might actually find that information. We're always happy to do the research work for you, or to have you do it yourself if you choose.

    We're also working toward making it easier and easier to use, and trying to organize it in such a way that it meets your requirements and is more oriented to a subject approach, which we hope is something that suits you--a subject approach probably leaning toward the committee areas.

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    Senator Marjory LeBreton: Did you transfer all of that information from those cards?

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: Yes, it was all transferred from the cards into the online catalogue.

    Senator Marjory LeBreton: I used to like going there. Sometimes, when I worked for Mr. Diefenbaker, it was nice to get into the vaults of the library and have some time to yourself.

    My next question is on content and the decision on books and publications. Do you try to catalogue and obtain every Canadian book and publication, or do you draw a line? Where is the decision made to keep a publication or not, or do you just keep everything, to be on the safe side?

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: The National Library of Canada now has the legal deposit for Canada for any material published in Canada. The Library of Parliament used to have it until the mid-1950s.

    We have a collection development policy that we're trying to update at the moment. It gives some direction to my staff, to help them determine what they're going to collect. They go through an awful lot of material--news releases, and press releases from editors and publishers. They go through a lot of library material, books in print, and so on, in deciding what they're going to acquire. They are also signed up on a number of websites and listservs. They're advised of new material in electronic format, but they also add to the collection. One of the reasons why we're having a harder time actually updating our collection development policy is because so much is available electronically, and it can be so expensive. So cost is obviously a factor, because we have a limited budget for adding material to the collection.

    We try to collect almost exhaustively in certain areas, such as the law in Canada, business, and social affairs. Certainly anything to do with Parliament and politics we try to collect exhaustively, keeping in mind the interests of Parliament, be it in the Senate or in the House, at any time.

    In terms of foreign materials published in the United States and overseas, we extensively collect material from Britain and the United States that has to do with Parliament and politics. We have a lot of congressional material as well. We're more selective when it comes to business information in that area. We don't collect as much history of other countries, but we collect Canadian history extensively.

    My staff have guidelines, and they've pretty much been the same guidelines for the last 15 years or so. We're trying to update them and make sure we're covering all our bases, with respect to electronic and print and the distribution of that material.

    Senator Marjory LeBreton: Thank you, Madam Chair.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): You're welcome.

    Mr. LeBlanc.

[Translation]

    Hon. Dominic LeBlanc (Beauséjour, Lib.): Thank you, Madam Co-Chair. Mr. Paré, I thank you and your staff for your presentation.

    I remember the last committee meeting. During the time I have been a member of this committee, this was probably the first such meeting where it was suggested that we have a round table to hear about the services you provide to parliamentarians. Mrs. LeBreton's questions are interesting. I had never thought about the way you select the material you should include in your collections. It is interesting.

    Madam Co-Chair, if I may, I would like to deal with technical aspects of libraries and ask a question to Mr. Paré. In the last year and a half or so, there has been a great deal of discussion in Parliament, and especially in the House of Commons, but also in the Senate probably, about the suggestion that Parliament should be made more democratically efficient and about better support for committees of both Houses.

¼  (1845)  

[English]

if a lot of the discussion around democratic reform...and my colleague Raymond Simard from the government side of the House of Commons is playing a big role.

    Maybe, Raymond, I'm asking a question you were going to ask, but I'm wondering if the library has given any thought to increased resources that the government or Parliament could give them, and what additional or value-added things you could do, principally, I assume, around committees and research, if there were an effort. I agree with the comment that if there's going to be parliamentary oversight, Parliament, compared to the government, needs to have some equilibrium of resources--research particularly--so that parliamentarians from all parties and in both Houses can be better informed.

    It's a long question, and I'll get right to the point. Monsieur Paré, if in the estimates that come out soon the library were to see increased resources to recognize the enhanced role of Parliament, how has your thinking evolved on where you would allocate those resources, and what additional things might you be able to do to help parliamentarians?

    Mr. Richard Paré: Thank you, Monsieur LeBlanc, for your question.

    Of course, the library has given some thought to these possibilities. In the throne speech of 2003, it was indicated that the government might want to develop more parliamentary democracy and encourage that. We felt that the library should be part of that because we can help the parliamentarians work better with the citizens, or understand citizens who know what they want. It would help pass the message to them.

    At that time we prepared a document with different options. We have circulated that. At the last meeting of this committee we mentioned a few figures in this document, and after that meeting the co-chair of the committee sent a letter to the

[Translation]

—parliamentary secretary to the leader, Mr. Gallaway

[English]

at that time, and they have indicated that in the short term an increase of funding for the library should be considered, especially to support the committees of the two chambers. As Madam Kirkwood said, we have approximately one research officer per committee at the time. We serve 50 committees and subcommittees in the House and the Senate.

    One problem we have, and it was raised by Madam Brodie, is the huge mass of electronic information, which is becoming more and more valuable. You are submerged by information, and we are too. We have to analyze, select, find out, and summarize. Here, also, we will need more resources in the future. In the short term, $6.5 million was suggested for the committees for the two. It was also suggested $2 million for contracts, but I understand the House of Commons has decided to put some money with the liaison committee for that part, so perhaps at this time it would be less necessary for the library for contracting outside.

    We also identified $1.4 million to increase access to the electronic information we prepare for parliamentarians, especially to send that accessibly to the constituency offices and to the constituency. That suggests, and supposes, we would have to pay much more money for licences. You think of ParlMedia, for instance, where you have access to all the newspapers online. Of course, we pay for licences for that for the Hill, but if we want it to go to the constituency office...this was a major part of it. So in the short term, this is what we have suggested.

    The budget of the library is only 6.7% of Parliament's envelope. If we consider the budget of the Senate, the budget of the House, and the budget of the library together, the vote for Parliament, it is only 6.7%. I would suggest anything under 10% is not much for the library. If you consider the Library of Congress or even, I believe, in Westminster, they spend more money, although at Westminster they have two libraries. Now they are trying to integrate the two libraries--they're not trying; they will do it, but it will take time, because there's tradition sometimes.

    The demand we had was just to increase 2.2%, which is 8.9% for the library. It think it would be very appropriate at this time. In the future, I think we will be need more, for the analysis of the documentation and information, because we need to do things a bit differently. They will need more support. When I say committees need more officers--we have one officer here--it doesn't mean if we increase the staff of the committee you will see two or three faces in front in you; not necessarily. You will probably have one, with people working behind him; then, with this computer, he will have instant information and analysis ready. It may happen that you will see two, maybe three, at one point, but in a general way it's not necessarily the number; it's mostly to prepare the documentation and the analysis of the information that needs to be prepared for committee discussion.

    That will be a short answer.

¼  (1850)  

    Hon. Dominic LeBlanc: Merci beaucoup.

    Merci, madame la présidente.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Monsieur Simard.

    Hon. Raymond Simard (Saint Boniface, Lib.): Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

    I think it would be appropriate to start off with a bit of a quiz here, given the company we have.

    Do you know who the most written about Canadian is--the most documented, most written about Canadian?

    Ms. Dianne Brydon: Wayne Gretzky.

    Hon. Raymond Simard: Actually, I'm told it's Louis Riel. That's an interesting fact you may not know.

    Hon. Dominic LeBlanc: You're biased.

    Hon. Raymond Simard: Sure. He's from my area.

    As a matter of fact, I wanted a question answered. I'm told Louis Riel came here in the dead of night, or incognito, and signed as a member of Parliament. I wonder if that's documented here. If I could get a copy, it would be really interesting.

    More seriously, I'd like to come back to those kits. If there's one place we've been weak, as members of Parliament or as an organization, it's getting to our young people. I'm going to visit 12 of my schools in the next little while, and that kind of thing would be extremely useful. Obviously, the online stuff is very important, but those kits sound interesting. Are you going to be delivering them just to our ridings--one per riding?

    Ms. Dianne Brydon: We'll be bringing them to your Hill offices. We'll bring you enough, so that if some members have more than one riding office, you'll have enough for each constituency office.

    Hon. Raymond Simard: Are you planning on delivering those to the schools as part of the curriculum, or not really?

    Ms. Dianne Brydon: We have teachers' kits now that we send out, which have a lot of these same things. This video will be sent next week to all 10,000 elementary schools across the country, with copies of the posters and the question and answer brochure.

    The model Parliament kit will be online. It's all a question of money, really; we have a very limited budget so we try to put as much online as we can. But with things like this, we invest the money in making sure that every school library will have one of these. And then they'll be for sale in the boutique for $7.99, I think, in case they need another one or a duplicate.

    The plan is to develop another set of resources for middle schools, grades 7, 8, and 9, and then secondary schools in another couple of years. So we're moving ahead towards a very comprehensive program. And we're consulting teachers all the way with this.

¼  (1855)  

    Hon. Raymond Simard: Okay.

    Ms. Dianne Brydon: We can't do it fast enough.

[Translation]

    Hon. Raymond Simard: One last question and comment. I am always amazed at the efficiency of our researchers in committees. When we ask for some information, we get it two or three days later.

    Of course, they do not do all the work by themselves. I think you answered my question about this, Mr. Paré. Researchers get good support. I am thinking here about the official languages standing committee, where a young researcher, Mr. Marion, is always well organized. Of course, he has a team to help him out, but we do not get to see the other people on this team. I would like to know how much he uses these people's help. Does he just get information from them or do they do research for him and with him?

    Mr. Richard Paré: Mrs. Kirkwood could tell you more than me about this. Actually, they all work together. They work very much as a team. Last year, to try to make this team work easier, we integrated the services of reference librarians and of analysts. Both groups now work together to help find the information. They work as a team.

    Mrs. Kate Kirkwood: It is true that analysts can count on all the resources of the library, but it is often the people you seen with committees who do the work and not too many other people.

    Hon. Raymond Simard: So they do the research by themselves.

    Mrs. Kate Kirkwood: Yes, they do a lot of research themselves with the information they get. These are very small interdisciplinary teams. You can have a lawyer and an economist studying one subject matter. Very often, they do not have support from other people.

    If we had a bigger budget, we could have more teams, do proactive research, get new knowledge and be at par with all these people in the government. We try to give all the information we can, but we are very few, compared to public servants in the government. There is too much work to do.

    So, we do have team work, but the researcher who works for a committee often does that work by himself of herself or with the help of one other person.

    Mr. Richard Paré: I would like to add a brief remark. We also have a team that includes people with a lot of experience and others who have less.

    Hon. Raymond Simard: They work together.

    Mr. Richard Paré: Yes. They consult each other, and it is very useful. Corporate memory can be useful for certain subject-matters that are discussed in committees. Very often, some subjects coming back.

    Hon. Raymond Simard: Thank you very much.

    Thank you, Madam Co-Chair.

[English]

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Mr. Goldring.

    Mr. Peter Goldring (Edmonton East, CPC): Thank you, Madam Chair.

    Mr. Paré, and ladies, thank you very much for your presentation. I'd certainly like to add that after about eight years in Parliament I have a high regard for the work you do. Any time we've asked for any assistance, it's always been given very willingly and very thoroughly. So I'm very grateful for that.

    I understand from the comment in the papers here that the number of books you have on record is some 600,000. I hope my book is one of those on file too. I'll have to check to see if it is.

½  (1900)  

    Mr. Richard Paré: I'm pretty sure it is.

    Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

    Mr. Peter Goldring: Along with that I wanted to explore the question of the research a little bit, because it was quite a challenge putting that together. Although we did have some assistance, I understand from your presentation that you provide more assistance, that you may be able to help compile and collate and give more extensive assistance. We basically came one by one for a report, and then we had to put it together. Our parties have their own research assistants, too, but I always have difficulty trying to tap into them because they seem to be quite engaged in other fields or areas, so it's a little more frustrating trying to do it. It generally comes back to doing it myself.

    So I'd like to know, where does the staff assistance on research begin and end, and what exactly are you able to help assist with on a major project? Is it putting together a 50-page report on a particular issue that's of a broad Canadian concern and nature? If I go into the affordable housing and emergency homeless shelters in Canada, would you help to put together something like that?

    Mr. Richard Paré: Yes, certainly, we would do that. It is part of our work. We may negotiate at that time because it's 50 pages and sometimes it takes more time, but we would do that.

    Mr. Peter Goldring: That's excellent, because on a particular issue like that, yes, the book is four years old, but the book is out of date and things move on. What you really are looking for is not necessarily publishing a book on it, but publishing an up-to-date report that has the complexities you're looking for. It is of a sizable, substantial nature.

    I'd certainly like to explore that, and I think other members of Parliament who have fairly substantive projects themselves would certainly like to be able to take advantage of those types of services.

    Mr. Richard Paré: On a few occasions, some of our senior analysts have participated in the production of a book and the writing of a book. We can help and participate and provide you with this type of service. But as I said, we would have to plan it, because if it's two or three days, we wouldn't be able to do it. There would probably be consultation with others before we could do it, but it will be done.

    Mr. Peter Goldring: I know my office will certainly be contacting you.

    Mrs. Kate Kirkwood: For individual requests, we're here to do customized research. Given that you've heard about our resources, doing a 50-page paper is challenging, but we do in-depth analysis as the members require.

    We'll do policy development, for example, if you were considering a private member's bill. We don't do the drafting, but as you're trying to develop your ideas as they move towards a private member's bill, it is something we do. Obviously, we provide the materials, but we can also provide some research and analysis in our fields. If you call us up and ask the question, we'll get back to you and, as Mr. Paré said, probably negotiate the deadline.

    Mr. Peter Goldring: That's excellent. What about the cost?

    Mrs. Kate Kirkwood: No.

    Mr. Peter Goldring: That is excellent. Thank you very much.

    Mr. Richard Paré: You're the owner of the report. You own the report.

    Mr. Peter Goldring: I'm really looking forward to this education package too. I think that is really first rate. I know it will keep me busy going through some of the schools with it, but it will be very worthwhile.

    Thank you very much.

     The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell: A number of members and senators have whispered in my ear that they have to leave. They're not sick, but this is the complexity of life here on the Hill.

[Translation]

    Any more questions, Mr. Simard?

[English]

    Hon. Raymond Simard: I've already asked my questions.

     The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell: Mr. Vellacott.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: No.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell I hope you know how much we appreciate this.

    You have 18 librarians, but what is the total number of staff?

    Mrs. Kate Kirkwood: We have more than 18 librarians on the research side, absolutely.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: We have 55 librarians altogether.

     The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell: What is the number of total staff? You must have assistants.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: There are about 350 to 375 staff, somewhere around there.

    Mr. Richard Paré: That includes the tour guides during the summer. We have new tour guides for the summer period because it's the peak period for visitors.

    Ms. Dianne Brydon: There are also several library technicians who help to manage the collection and catalogue the books. There's quite a staff that manages the library side.

    Mrs. Kate Kirkwood: There is support staff as well.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): I'm not surprised.

    Does anyone else want to offer any comments about the first part of the business on plans and services?

    It has been immensely informative. I thank you for that.

    We wanted you to also talk about a visit that we might be able to have. The date hasn't been set yet for the members of the committee, has it, Mr. Paré?

    Mr. Richard Paré: It has not, to my knowledge. We'd better ask Madam Brodie.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: It hasn't been set. Most visits to the site are on Fridays, and I was informed that Fridays are typically not a very good day for you.

    Of course, the site is still managed by the Fuller Construction Company. It's entirely their site, but I've been advised by Public Works that if you are interested in a visit later in the afternoon, after 3:30 on any day of the week, they can generally find a way to convince Fuller to let you in for a tour. Of course, there will be more to see as the construction really approaches completion, but it's quite interesting even now.

½  (1905)  

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): What's the target date? Is it the end of the year, or do you think it's next year?

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: The target date is the end of this year.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): What do you think would be most profitable? Should we go this spring, or would you suggest waiting until the fall?

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: I think if you'd like to see a bit more of the skeleton and the bare bones—a little bit in its construction phase, before the finishing touches are put in—this spring would be very good. If you'd like to see it more with the furniture in and a bit more advanced—the statue of Queen Victoria back in, the wood parquet floor installed—then much more likely September or October would be a better time to go.

    Mr. Richard Paré: I think we could agree to have two visits, one now and one later.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): In terms of the one now, I think what I would suggest, in that there are more than six people anyway, is that if you could get two or three times.... I think sometimes you can go after 3:30 p.m.—certainly not on Friday, though, never on Friday, but sometimes on Monday it might be possible. It's very hard for any of us, as it is for you people, but I think if you could send out a questionnaire, people would tick it off, and then you could try to organize it.

    I think it's a good idea. Some will definitely be able to go and some would like to go and won't be able to go.

    We appreciate this very much.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: The other thing I can offer is that after April 1, Public Works has undertaken to have some of the videos explaining the procedures for the construction translated. Up till now they have only been in English. At that point we'll be able to lend you or show you a bilingual version of those videos. A number of the library staff have been to see them recently, and they're really quite wonderful. They've done an amazing job showing the pouring of concrete floors over long periods in order to get them nice and flat and strong.

    They're really quite well done—and short, of course.

     The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): So this is going to be arranged? Okay.

    The other thing is—and I don't think it's inappropriate to mention this—what is the status of the interview process and the appointment process? Is this the time to mention that, or would you prefer to do it later?

    Mr. Richard Paré: I don't have much information. I know the process will be led by the Privy Council, of course, and all I know is that they asked me for some information to have an announcement put in the Canada Gazette at one point, as they did ten years ago when there was a competition for the replacement of Mr. Spicer.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): And that hasn't been done yet?

    Mr. Richard Paré: Not to my knowledge, no. It certainly hasn't appeared in the Gazette.

    he Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): All right. That's very good. It's noted in this letter that the appointment would be reviewed by this committee—at the correct time, of course. That's premature at this point.

    I also wanted to mention the letter that was sent from Mr. Chatters, with a copy to me and Susan and Mr. Vellacott. I don't think we need to.... It's the only other piece of communication that I have that concerns the committee. The reply is very thorough, and I just wondered whether we needed as a committee to pay any attention to this.

    You're aware of it, are you?

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: I am, but I haven't seen the response yet. I'm sure it came into my office, but I don't know what the highlights—

     The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): The response is dated February 21, so you would have it.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: In summary, is there a way to encapsulize what the response was? Did we handle it a little differently? I think there were some suggestions in the original letter about doing links, and there was another comment. Maybe Mr. Paré could summarize, or you could, what we learned for the future on that one.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): I'll just read, if I might, Mr. Paré, what I highlighted here: that the library collection must reflect the different views of our Canadian culture and society; and that they are included here if they've been published by a recognized and respected source; and that there's a great deal of attention given to representing different perspectives on the political spectrum, and truly being non-partisan.

    The last paragraph speaks about your suggestion that the library could include a disclaimer that we do not support the views espoused by the publications we collect and proactively distribute, as one we will consider further.

    I guess it's something you're thinking about. I don't know whether that's anywhere in your documentation, but it is perhaps a good point.

½  (1910)  

    Mr. Richard Paré: I thought I had everything, but I forgot the copy of that letter.

    You know, it sometimes happens that we put something that may be...I wouldn't say challenged, but commented on by a member, but we explain the reason why we put it there, and then usually it's acceptable.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): So you do put polls. Would all polls that come out on issues, let's say, that are--

    Mr. Richard Paré: I don't think we put all the polls, but we put some.

    I think Madam Brodie could help with that.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: We have an extensive collection of polls that we receive from Public Works and Government Services Canada. These are all the polls that are commissioned by the various government departments.

    Those we have and we keep. We don't currently have electronic versions of them, but it's something we've been discussing with Public Works, to obtain those.

    This particular case is one that was done by the National Post and Global Television.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): The poll was done by COMPAS Inc.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: It was commissioned by the National Post and Global, and it was done by COMPAS.

    It's very hard for us to exclude all published information that criticizes any particular political party or any particular point of view or perspective. We feel rather strongly.... And Senator LeBreton asked earlier about our collection development policy. We really do try to provide a balanced perspective, and that may mean that individual documents may appear to be proponents of one side or another. But we try to make sure we have a reasonable distribution on each topic.

    With this particular poll by COMPAS, in fact when you read it, the context is such that there are different perspectives presented in it. I think you can't look at it just sort of one line at a time and indicate that it's critical of one government party or another. I think it supports each of the government parties for different reasons and proposes how they should approach things differently. I find it's actually...maybe not balanced, but it certainly isn't as unbalanced as it would first appear.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Thank you very much.

    Do you wish to question that?

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: Yes. I guess I was kind of surprised in all this that we didn't.... Do we not have any disclaimer statements anywhere in the Library of Parliament materials?

    Mr. Richard Paré: We have some disclaimers.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: We do have quite a few disclaimer statements on the website indicating not so much that we don't support the particular points of view espoused by other publishers and authors, but that the information is there for research purposes and is not to be redistributed. A lot of the electronic information is licensed to the Library of Parliament for distribution to members of Parliament, not for redistribution on public websites.

    So that's where most of our disclaimers fit in at the moment. We've never really given a lot of thought to the type of disclaimer that is suggested by Mr. Chatters.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: This other one is more of a copyright issue. It's a different type.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: Very much. It's a redistribution and licensing issue.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: This may be a good protection. I think it merits some consideration.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: It merits some consideration; however, we don't know how we would deal with the books. Do we have to then stamp every book in the library collection to say that we don't necessarily support the views in that book?

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: With respect to the Internet materials, would you probably just do a couple in...maybe you have a section in public affairs, or maybe on your main site as you come into the main page?

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: That's why the response in the letter says we have to give it some more thought and figure out what the implications are, but we certainly will look at it further.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: I think with books it's probably obvious--it's the author's book. But I understand your dilemma. I just think it's a nice protection, and it may be a good thing to consider seriously.

½  (1915)  

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: It's pretty obvious in this case as well that it was produced by COMPAS. The same thing occurs with a lot of the articles that appear in Quorum, which is distributed to you every morning. Some of the stories are very supportive of different points of view and sometimes very critical, and we regularly get requests to rethink what we've put in there. We feel that as long as we're trying to be as balanced as possible and reflecting what's appearing in the press, without actually preventing people from reading...or not censoring what they read in Quorum....

    We try to present as many points of view as possible in both languages.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: It's always the issue and why this complaint comes, obviously. It's the issue of selection. Who can get it perfectly? You can't exactly weigh it on a scale in a concrete way.

    I realize that in eight years you've probably had comments or critiques on Quorum from time to time. Sometimes it ends up in the news itself, like stuff on our BlackBerry.

    I'm sure you listen to that too. To what extent you jump to following whatever that particular allegation is, you at least reconsider each time, I'm sure, and say, “Well, is there something for us to learn in this?” Maybe yea and maybe nay.

    Mr. Richard Paré: Talking about Quorum, we have good criteria, but sometimes it has happened.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: We do take your comments seriously, and with respect to Quorum, we actually carried out several surveys of members of Parliament and senators to find out how they felt about the contents of Quorum, what additional information they would like to see and what they didn't really want to see. We did a subsequent survey about two years later, and the response was that they were very happy with the additional regional coverage, the additional coverage of editorials, and material in French and English.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: I didn't look at this one that was the consideration of Mr. Chatters' complaint, but is the whole methodology of the poll, and so on, all there? Is it complete in every respect?

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: Yes, actually, I do have a copy of it. It's fairly short.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: With some of these polls, if you're just reading, if you don't know the questions, and so on, it's very misleading.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: I don't believe Mr. Chatters' issue was with the poll or the way the poll was conducted itself, but with specific comments made by COMPAS in the textual part of the poll.

    Again, if you read through the whole text, I won't say it's taken out of context, but it's isolated.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: So you do government-commissioned polls, and you do a number of these other polls out there as well.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: Yes, that's right.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: You can't do them all.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: No.

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: There are as many polls as on the Trans-Canada Highway in Saskatchewan. Some are worth the paper they're written on and not much more, and some might be worth a fair bit more.

    Ms. Lynn Brodie: If they're mentioned in the newspaper and we're getting requests for them, or we think they're on a subject that...we'll try to get a copy.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Thank you.

[Translation]

    Mr. Simard, please.

    Hon. Raymond Simard: Thank you very much.

    I did not hear what you had to say about the French version. You can understand that, in my capacity of parliamentary secretary to the deputy leader of the government in the House of Commons and minister responsible for official languages, I am quite sensitive to this.

    When documents are made available to the public, I presume they are available in both official languages at the same time.

    Ms. Dianne Brydon: Always.

    Hon. Raymond Simard: You have given me an answer.

[English]

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Are there any other questions?

    We are going to plan a steering committee meeting. I've reminded the clerks that we had sort of made a commitment to have an event with the poet laureate. I think we made that commitment to her that night, although I'm not the one who did it. I think there was some thought that we would try to share something before we all go home this spring.

    This has been a wonderful presentation, and the documents are so well prepared. I read that 65% of your work is with the committees. It's an enormous amount of work that you do for us, and we owe you so much thanks.

½  (1920)  

[Translation]

    I thank you all. I am sure all of us appreciate very much your good work, your dedication and your vision.

[English]

    I'm sure we're going to have a chance to thank Mr. Paré a little later.

    I want to thank the staff for arranging the meeting and getting us all together. It was a pretty good turnout, actually, when you consider all the things that are going on the night before the budget.

    Mr. Paré, do you have any concluding remarks?

    Mr. Maurice Vellacott: When things aren't going right around this place, being that the Library of Parliament does so much for us--and I genuinely mean that--can we blame you?

    Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

    The Joint Chair (Senator Marilyn Trenholme Counsell): Are they always doing right for somebody and wrong for somebody else?

    Thank you all.

    The meeting is adjourned.