LIPA Committee Meeting

37th PARLIAMENT, 2nd SESSION

Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament

EVIDENCE

CONTENTS

Thursday, October 9, 2003

¿

0910

The Joint Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Jean-Philippe Brochu)

Mr. Mauril Bélanger (Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.)

The Joint Clerk (Mr. Jean-Philippe Brochu)

Mr. Mauril Bélanger

The Joint Clerk (Mr. Jean-Philippe Brochu)

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin (Lauzon, Lib.))

The Joint Clerk (Mr. Jean-Philippe Brochu)

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

The Joint Vice-Chair (Miss Deborah Grey (Edmonton North, Canadian Alliance))

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

¿

0915

Ms. Marlene Catterall (Ottawa West—Nepean, Lib.)

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

Ms. Marlene Catterall

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

The Acting Joint Chair (Miss Deborah Grey)

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

Mr. Marcel Gagnon (Champlain, BQ)

¿

0920

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

The Acting Joint Chair (Miss Deborah Grey)

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

Mr. Marcel Gagnon

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

Senator Jean Lapointe (Saurel, Lib.)

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

Mr. Jacques Saada (Brossard—La Prairie, Lib.)

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

Senator Jean Lapointe

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

¿

0925

Senator Jean Lapointe

Mr. Jacques Saada

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

Mr. James Robertson (Committee Researcher)

The Acting Joint Chair (Miss Deborah Grey)

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

Mr. Jacques Saada

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

Ms. Marlene Catterall

The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin)

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CANADA

Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament

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NUMBER 007

l

2nd SESSION

l

37th PARLIAMENT

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EVIDENCE

Thursday, October 9, 2003

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

¿  (0910)  

[Translation]

    The Joint Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Jean-Philippe Brochu): Honourable members, I see a quorum. We can now proceed to the election of the Co-Chair. Any nominations?

    Mr. Bélanger.

    Mr. Mauril Bélanger (Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.): I would like to nominate Ms. Carolyn Bennett, member of the House of Commons, for the position of Co-Chair.

    The Joint Clerk (Mr. Jean-Philippe Brochu): Are there any other nominations?

    Mr. Mauril Bélanger: She agrees. She told me yesterday.

    The Joint Clerk (Mr. Jean-Philippe Brochu): Therefore, I declare Ms. Bennett duly elected Co-Chair of the Committee, in absentia.

    Now we have to proceed with the election of a Vice-Chair. Any suggestions?

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin (Lauzon, Lib.)): Regarding the position of Co-Chair representing the House I think that it would be Ms. Grey. I certainly don't want to interfere with the business of the House but Ms. Grey held the position last time and I think that it would be appropriate that she would do so again.

    The Joint Clerk (Mr. Jean-Philippe Brochu): Is anyone nominating Ms. Grey? Mr. Lapointe nominates her. Are there any other nominations? No? Ms. Grey.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): It's unanimous.

[English]

    The Joint Vice-Chair (Miss Deborah Grey (Edmonton North, Canadian Alliance)): Thank you. Merci.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): You come and sit next to me. Carolyn, unfortunately, is in Toronto for personal business. She has a family problem to take care of.

[Translation]

    I shall be brief. I should like to mention an important point for members of this committee. At the meeting of the executive, a number of points were raised which can be found in the letter which has been distributed and which was sent to Mr. Paré. In that letter, particular mention is made of the budget of Parliament, the study undertaken by Deloitte & Touche which appeared in the Hill Times, of which we knew nothing, as well as the matter of professional development and long term vision for the Library of Parliament.

    A meeting took place with Mr. Paré and Mr. Finsten, his assistant, and we agreed to get involved in the budget which will be submitted in November and to request additional resources in order to increase the number of researchers to two per House of Commons committee, to allow each House of Commons committee to have its Web site, and to buy periodicals collections whose cost is higher all the time. We also discussed the matter of professional development which is very important.

    Those are the three points we talked about. I don't foresee a meeting in the near future to discuss the budget. If there is one, we will certainly deal with the matter of the budget and additional resources. The Library of Parliament budget has remained stable over the last few years and we think that in view of everything which is happening, it would be very useful for the Library to have additional resources in order to meet the needs which are set out here and clearly established in the letter before you.

[English]

    Are there any questions or any other things you would like to raise?

    Yes, Ms. Catterall.

¿  (0915)  

    Ms. Marlene Catterall (Ottawa West—Nepean, Lib.): This may or may not be the appropriate time, but I'm just looking at the co-chair's letter to Mr. Paré. And I see the controllership capacity assessment in front of us, and I'm aware that there's just been a report completed, an assessment completed as well, on the library's management of information technology, which this committee occupied itself with for a couple of meetings.

    It seems to me that we should establish a meeting to have a more in-depth look at some of these things. Normally our meetings are not as regular as other committees', necessarily, so it's difficult to get people here. But it seems to me that we should have a special meeting where we're prepared to spend a little more time putting all these pieces together.

    On the performance report of the library, I honestly can't remember if performance reports have been tabled yet or not.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): The one on parliamentarians: is that the one you're referring to?

    Ms. Marlene Catterall: No, but the House, and perhaps the library as well, does a plans and priorities report every year, a performance report every year. It seems to me that your letter, on behalf of the committee, goes into a lot of things that are related to the estimates. If we're going to be prepared to have a good look at the estimates, we need to have a bit of a look backwards to see what the plans and priorities report said they would achieve and what the performance report says they achieved in the previous year.

    So we need to spend some good time on the estimates, when they are tabled in the spring, to look at whether we feel the library is really using its resources to the best service of Parliament.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): We both have the same objective on this, but we went at it a bit differently. I think we could very well have a meeting. Possibly we could schedule an evening meeting, if members want, and go through it. That might be easier. I don't know how popular that idea is, but I do realize that it's extremely difficult to meet during the day.

    I don't know how my co-chair feels about it.

    The Acting Joint Chair (Miss Deborah Grey): I'm here in the evenings too, so I would be happy to come.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): For the first time, I think, the committee is getting involved in the management, and I think we have a responsibility. I was talking to my Speaker, and Carolyn did the same thing with hers. They both welcome our help on this, very much so, because they are responsible, as you know, for the library.

    I think the library is doing an excellent job. There is no doubt about that. The Compas study has shown they've done an excellent job. But I think improvements could be made, especially in the forum of e-democracy and helping the committees with their work. That's why our first priority is to bring up the number of researchers to two per committee, to help committees with, for example, the estimates. There would be one researcher who would be more involved in the estimates, so when the House committee deals with it... because in the Senate it's a bit different. In the House, when they deal with the estimates, they could have a researcher who's quite familiar with all of the estimates, the budget and so forth.

    We certainly could have a meeting and review that, as you just stated.

    Monsieur Gagnon.

[Translation]

    Mr. Marcel Gagnon (Champlain, BQ): You said that there had been a discussion of the subjects you just mentioned. Another subject had been raised and I should like to know where it is at. I am told that the poet laureate comes under our committee. We had been wondering what was his role, what was his mandate, what was the cost of his position and to whom he was accountable.

¿  (0920)  

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): You are quite right Mr. Gagnon; we had discussed that matter.

[English]

    Would it be possible to have a meeting in October on this? I don't know who I should speak to, on my right or on my left, but anyway...

[Translation]

    Mr. Gagnon raised this point the last time. If we were to invite the poet laureate to appear before the committee, I am sure that it would be very well received.

[English]

    Deborah, you're involved in poems too, aren't you?

    The Acting Joint Chair (Miss Deborah Grey): Oh, yes. Well, actually, we did a little research on this after the last meeting. I took some stuff off the web about Mr. George Bowering, a well-known poet out in British Columbia. When asked in this interview what his mandate was, he said he wasn't really sure, but he thought he'd do some travelling around the country. I don't know anything about it, or about any trips that he's made. So he's unclear what his mandate is and we're unclear what his mandate is. We're just not sure.

    I've started working on some poems of my own so that I can get on the list after his term is over--just so you know.

[Translation]

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): Mr. Gagnon.

    Mr. Marcel Gagnon: It might be better to deal with the lady. We would know what her mandate is.

    I am wondering because taxpayers' money is involved. We passed legislation. When I'm told that he himself doesn't know exactly what is his role, what is his mandate, I feel that within the government there surely must be someone who knows what the poet does. I hope that we're not spending that money for nothing. I would like to know under whose jurisdiction he comes under, what is his mandate and to whom is he accountable.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): I am sure, Senator Lapointe, that you are interested in the poet laureate's position.

    Senator Jean Lapointe (Saurel, Lib.): Of course, Mr. Chairman, but my question had nothing to do with the poet laureate. Perhaps I'm being sacrilegious. As you no doubt know, I do not have much experience with this committee but I dream of a day not in the too distant future where a culture committee could become an integral part of the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament. This is a dream which is also shared by Senator Hervieux-Payette.

    There isn't one and I think it is a must. It is necessary, we have enough people for that. I think in particular of Senator Viola Léger. I do not know all the members but I know that in the House there are people who are very much interested in it.

    I dream of the day where the Standing Joint Committee on the Library of Parliament would become the Committee of the Library of Parliament and Culture. Am I being very sacrilegious?

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): Not at all. I think you're making a very important point. I don't know whether the matter has been discussed in the House but I know that it has been discussed extensively in the Senate. Should it be a joint committee or a senate committee, I don't know. I must say that personally I'm in favour of this solution.

    Jacques, is this a matter which would have implications for the House? I know that the matter has been discussed extensively in the Senate.

    Mr. Jacques Saada (Brossard—La Prairie, Lib.): I cannot speak for my colleagues because this is not a matter which was raised, but I would still like to speak to it on my own behalf. Our committees which deal with culture do so on a much wider scope than just what we call culture. They deal a lot more with matters concerning trade, development, protection and so on.

    I agree fully with Senator Lapointe, that there is no forum for these matters. I think that the strength of civilizations lies in the way they deal, protect and promote their culture. I think we fail in this regard.

    I would be totally agreeable to make it a joint committee of the Senate and the House. There is no point having separate entities. In my opinion, it is a joint concern and I would make me really happy to see this come to fruition.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): We could certainly consider the matter. I think it is a wonderful idea.

    Senator Jean Lapointe: It would be good to have the House with us. As far as I am concerned, such a committee, beside its usual duties, would promote the country. It is somewhat in line with what Mr. Saada was saying. Yesterday, I received people from the NFB in my office. They are considering a fantastic promotion but they are caught in some kind of a stranglehold. We could give our country an opportunity to shine abroad. You are aware no doubt that we are one of the richest country as far as culture is concerned in proportion to our population.

    I just love this committee and I would be very much in favour of adding a few cultural components in order to help our country to get a greater outreach in the world.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): Doing so would have the advantage of giving our committee wider interests and not dealing strictly with matters of administration and management and we could also hear witnesses. I think this is a good suggestion.

    I don't really know how to proceed but this is a matter to keep in mind and to discuss. Far from being sacrilegious, it is a blessing.

¿  (0925)  

    Senator Jean Lapointe: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, but please don't count on me to tell you how to proceed.

    Mr. Jacques Saada: May I make a suggestion? There are several paths available. One of them might be to write to the Speaker of the House and the Speaker of the Senate to inform them of the interest shown by the committee in this matter and to ask them for guidance as to the procedure.

    We are a multiparty committee of the House and the Senate and not a government committee. Therefore I think that the Speakers of both Houses are the ones best suited to give us advice.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): We will do so if the committee is agreeable.

    I thank Senator Lapointe for this suggestion.

    Therefore, we are in agreement with regard to calling the poet laureate to appear before us in October.

[English]

    Are we agreed?

    Voices: Agreed.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): Maybe we could have whoever it is in the House who's interested in this bill--I don't know if they're still around--on the poet.

    Mr. James Robertson (Committee Researcher): Ms. Jennings sponsored it.

    The Acting Joint Chair (Miss Deborah Grey): Maybe she knows the mandate.

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): Maybe she could come to the committee when he comes.

    It'll be an interesting meeting. We don't see poets every day. Well, I'm sitting with one now, but otherwise we don't see them.

[Translation]

    Mr. Jacques Saada: You have a poet here and a bard there.

[English]

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): Any other...

    Ms. Marlene Catterall: And we'll all do our best to follow in verse.

[Translation]

    The Joint Chair (Senator Yves Morin): In alexandrins, as we say in French.

[English]

    If there's nothing else, we'll adjourn, and we'll keep you informed about the poet.

    Thank you very much for your contributions.