[English]
EVIDENCE
[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]
Tuesday, December 7, 1999
• 1109
[English]
The Joint Clerk of the Committee (Mr. Gary Levy): It is my duty as joint clerk of this committee to preside over the election of the Senate joint chair. I am ready to receive motions to this effect. Are there any motions?
Senator Jerahmiel S. Grafstein (Metro Toronto, Lib.): I move that the Honourable Senator Louis Robichaud of New Brunswick be nominated as joint chair of the committee, Senate.
The Joint Clerk (Mr. Gary Levy): It is moved by Senator Grafstein that the Honourable Senator Louis Robichaud be joint chair of this committee. Is it your pleasure, honourable senators and members of the House of Commons, to adopt the motion?
(Motion agreed to)
The Joint Clerk (Mr. Gary Levy): I invite the Hon. Senator Robichaud to take the chair.
• 1110
Some hon. members: Hear, hear!
The Joint Clerk of the Committee (Ms. Santosh Sirpaul): Honourable senators and members of the House, pursuant to Standing Order 106(1) of the Standing Orders of the House of Commons, I'm ready to receive motions for the election of the chair from the House.
Mr. Bertrand.
[Translation]
Mr. Robert Bertrand (Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle, Lib.): Madam Clerk, it gives me great pleasure to move that my friend Raymond Lavigne be nominated as joint chair of the committee.
[English]
The Joint Clerk (Ms. Santosh Sirpaul): It's been moved by Mr. Robert Bertrand that Mr. Lavigne do take the chair of this committee as joint chair. Is it the pleasure of the committee to adopt the said motion?
(Motion agreed to)
The Joint Clerk (Ms. Santosh Sirpaul): Mr. Lavigne....
Some hon. members: Hear, hear!
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud (Acadia, Lib.)): We now go to item 3, the election of the deputy chair for the House of Commons. There is no equivalent in the Senate.
An hon. member: Why not?
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): I don't know.
Mr. Philip Mayfield (Cariboo—Chilcotin, Ref.): I would move that Deborah Grey be nominated joint vice-chair.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): It has been moved by Philip Mayfield that Deborah Grey be appointed deputy chair from the House of Commons. Are there any further nominations? No?
(Motion agreed to)
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): I declare Deborah Grey elected deputy chair.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear!
An hon. member: Do you want to give a speech?
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): You are given 42 minutes.
[Translation]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne (Verdun—Saint-Henri, Lib.)): Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure: would someone care to nominate members of the subcommittee?
[English]
Is somebody going to nominate somebody else to be...?
[Translation]
The Joint Chairman (Senator Louis Robichaud): The subcommittee must be composed of six members representing all political parties.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): The joint chairs, the deputy chairs and the representatives of the Bloc Québécois, the Progressive Conservative Party and the New Democratic Party. All parties must be represented.
[English]
Mrs. Karen Redman (Kitchener Centre, Lib.): Are you looking for a mover?
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Yes.
Mrs. Karen Redman: I so move.
The Joint Chair (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): It has been proposed by Madame Karen Redman.
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
The Joint Chair (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Moving to the next one, item 5,
[Translation]
It is moved that the quorum be fixed at 7 members provided that both Houses are represented whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken and that the joint chairs be authorized to hold meetings to receive evidence and authorize printing thereof so long as four members are present, provided that both Houses are represented.
• 1115
The Joint Chairman (Senator Louis Robichaud): So moved by Senator Vivienne Poy.
[English]
(Motion agreed to)
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Item 6 pertains to the authority to commit funds and certify accounts. You can read that motion.
Mrs. Karen Redman: I so move.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): It is moved by Karen Redman. Is this motion to dispense passed?
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
[Translation]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Witnesses expenses.
[English]
Mr. John Finlay (Oxford, Lib.): I'll move that motion.
[Translation]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Mr. John Finlay moves that at the discretion of the joint chairs, reasonable traveling expenses, as per the regulations established by the Board of Internal Economy and the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budget and Administration, be paid to witnesses invited to appear before the committee, and that payment of these expenses be limited to two representatives per organization.
[English]
(Motion agreed to)
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Moving to item 8, the motion is that during the questioning of witnesses, there be allocated 10 minutes for the first questioner of each party and that thereafter 5 minutes be allocated to each subsequent questioner.
Do I have a mover?
Mr. Robert Bertrand: I so move.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Moved by Robert Bertrand.
(Motion agreed to)
[Translation]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): New questions: it is moved that unless there is unanimous consent, 48-hour notice must be given to members before any new question is submitted to the consideration of the committee.
Senator Normand Grimard (Québec, PC): I so move.
[English]
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Is it moved?
(Motion agreed to)
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): On item 10, printing proceedings, the motion is that the committee print 360 copies....
I think there's a question here that we may not need 360 copies.
The Joint Chair (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Maybe 250.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): It's suggested that 250 would be sufficient. Do I have a mover? Mr. Bertrand? Mr. Clouthier?
An hon. member: Hec's on the record now.
Mr. Hec Clouthier (Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, Lib.): Yes, now I'm on the record.
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
[Translation]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Item 11, Sitting times: it is moved that the Joint Chair (Senate) be authorized to obtain permission to sit during Senate sittings.
[English]
Mr. John Finlay: I have a question, Mr. Chairman.
I don't see a similar motion for the House. Can you explain to me what the...?
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): I don't think it's necessary here, but every time the committee sits we—
The Joint Clerk (Ms. Santosh Sirpaul): It's in our standing orders that the committee can sit during the sittings of the House.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): A motion has to be passed in the Senate every time this committee sits.
The Joint Chair (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): We don't need that in the House.
Do we have a mover?
Senator Jerahmiel Grafstein: I so move.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): It is moved by Senator Grafstein.
(Motion agreed to)
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): On item 12, order of reference, the motion is that the joint chairs be authorized to report to their respective chambers that the committee be authorized to assist the Speaker of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Commons in directing and controlling the Library of Parliament; and that it be authorized to make recommendations to the Speaker of the Senate and to the Speaker of the House of Commons regarding the government of the library and the proper expenditure of moneys voted by Parliament for the purchase of books, maps or other articles to be deposited therein.
Do I have a mover?
[Translation]
Mr. Paul Mercier (Terrebonne—Blainville, BQ): I have a question, Mr. Chairman.
[English]
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Mr. Mercier has a question first.
[Translation]
Mr. Paul Mercier: I don't understand. There are some commas or words missing.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Louis Robichaud): The clerk will explain it to you.
• 1120
Mr. Paul Mercier: To begin with...
[English]
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Mr. Mercier has a question, because
[Translation]
There's something he doesn't understand
Mr. Paul Mercier: The motion reads that the joint chairs be authorized to report to their respective chambers...
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): That's correct.
Mr. Paul Mercier: “To report” is an odd choice of words, but be that as it may...
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): In other words, to tell or inform...
Mr. Paul Mercier: Could we at least insert a comma after “respective” in the French version?
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Yes.
Mr. Paul Mercier: That would clarify matters.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): It would.
Mr. Paul Mercier: In the French version, we have “Que le comité soit autorisés”, with an “s” on the word. If we were to remove the “s”, I think it would be much clearer.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): I see you're correcting the mistakes as well.
Mr. Paul Mercier: It's not that, but...
The Joint Chairman (Senator Louis Robichaud): I understand.
Mr. Paul Mercier: Otherwise, it made no sense. Without the comma and with the “s”, it wasn't at all clear.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Louis Robichaud): I read the English version. Therefore, I don't know if...
Mr. Paul Mercier: I see. As a rule, it's a good idea to read the English version in order to understand the French version.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Would you care to move the motion respecting the order of reference?
Mr. Paul Mercier: Provided these changes are made, of course.
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Of course.
[English]
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): There was a question from Senator Grafstein.
Senator Jerahmiel Grafstein: Just as a technical point to the clerk, the word in the fifth-last line says we're approving the “government of the Library”. I looked at the French, and the French says la régie. Is the more appropriate word the “governance” of the Library, as opposed to the “government” of the library? It's just a technical question. It doesn't deal with the substance. If that's the case, however, I'd suggest that the mover amend his resolution to change the word in that line from “government” to “governance”.
The Joint Chair (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Thank you.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Is it agreed that the motion by Mr. Mercier be so amended?
(Amendment agreed to)
[Translation]
Mr. Paul Mercier: I have another small correction to point out.
The Joint Chairman (Senator Louis Robichaud): Go ahead.
Mr. Paul Mercier: In the French version, the word “recommendation” should be spelled with an “a” rather than an “e”, unless of course the Library, an institution of higher learning and culture, prefers... [Editor's Note: Inaudible]
The Joint Chairman (Senator Louis Robichaud): Repeating then, Mr. Mercier moves that the motion be adopted as amended.
(Motion as amended agreed to)
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Item 13, First report of the committee: it is moved that the committee adopt its first report and that the Joint Chairs be authorized to table same in their respective chamber.
Has everyone received a copy of the report that has been distributed?
[English]
Mr. Philip Mayfield: What is the purpose of this motion? Is there a report?
The Joint Chair (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Yes, I just gave it to you. You're supposed to have it. You can use it in the back, in your office. We need a mover. Do we have one?
Mrs. Karen Redman: I so move.
Mr. John Finlay: Mr. Chairman, if we're going to change the word to “governance” in the motion, as we did, then we had better change it in the first paragraph of the first report.
The Joint Chair (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Yes, that's right.
(Motion agreed to)
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Item 14 pertains to time slots for meetings.
The Joint Clerk (Mr. Gary Levy): The committee met at different times in the last session. You may want to try to set a particular time slot or leave it as it was in the past, on an ad hoc basis.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): I would suggest an ad hoc basis.
Some hon. members: Agreed.
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
[Translation]
The Joint Chairman (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Future business of the committee.
[English]
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Should it be ad hoc?
An hon. member: Ad hoc.
(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
The Joint Chair (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): Okay, any time we can meet, there's no problem there.
I now entertain a motion of adjournment.
Senator Jerahmiel Grafstein: Just as a brief question and comment, I decided I would put my name forward to serve on this committee because I feel the library is one of our important institutions in Ottawa and in Canada, and I don't think it's received the recognition that it should. However, I've had an opportunity in the last few months to study the Internet, and I feel Canada has fallen woefully behind. In two years, we've become a third world country just because we haven't done enough to lay the proper infrastructure for the Internet.
• 1125
At the cutting edge of this is content. The library
is replete with content, and I would suggest that at a
very early opportunity we convoke a meeting that will
include in the agenda the question of the Internet and
the websites, so that we can start the new millennium
by focusing on the digital age as opposed to the
historic age of printed books.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): That's a fine suggestion.
The Joint Clerk (Mr. Gary Levy): It could be done sometime in February, when we come back.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Yes, or it could be left to the steering committee in the meantime.
Senator Jerahmiel Grafstein: It's just a suggestion to the new committee.
The Joint Chair (Senator Louis Robichaud): Yes, thank you very much.
Now, do I have a motion of adjournment?
Mr. Robert Bertrand: I so move.
(Motion agreed to)
The Joint Chair (Mr. Raymond Lavigne): I'm asking you to stay for a couple of moments because we have a photographer here to take a picture of us all together.
The meeting is adjourned.